Ferrari front wing

miqi23 · Post 07 Apr 2006, 02:05

Every one have been complaning about Ferrari's front wing that its flexing etc etc. I also saw it on TV as well, but I am wondering how is that particular flexing motion seen on TV is giving Ferrari an advantage?

Any one has any info on it? I mean a technical analysis etc with come numbers etc proving it?

Thanks

kilcoo316 · Post 07 Apr 2006, 14:05

manchild wrote:I agree but since some other posters mentioned several times that Ferrari wing was not found illegal I just pointed out exactly who found it not to be illegal.

So 2 out of 23 members of the SPORTS COUNCIL might be biased, what about the other 21?

What about the fact that the sports council doesn't decide day to day technical matters, that falls under Joe and Herbie's jurisdiction.

Some conspiracy theories are really just stupid and are really an insult to the good work being done by ferrari engineers on their cars.

manchild · Post 07 Apr 2006, 14:20

kilcoo316 wrote:...So 2 out of 23 members of the SPORTS COUNCIL might be biased, what about the other 21?

Second of all, if Jean Todt only "might be biased" than he Ferrari should sack him ASAP. BTW, other 21 members are in no relation to other F1 teams. Basically kilcoo you're attacking something that is not conspiracy theory since Jean and Marco are officialy memebrs of FIA WMC, so no theory there but pure conspiracy.

kilcoo316 · Post 07 Apr 2006, 16:27

manchild wrote:Second of all, if Jean Todt only "might be biased" than he Ferrari should sack him ASAP. BTW, other 21 members are in no relation to other F1 teams. Basically kilcoo you're attacking something that is not conspiracy theory since Jean and Marco are officialy memebrs of FIA WMC, so no theory there but pure conspiracy.

So your saying because of 2 questionable members on the world motor council, that all the members are biased? That all decisions are in favour of ferrari?

Also, you ignored the part that the council is not responsible for the day-to-day running of F1. But of course that would blow the conspiracy theory out of the water.

Yes, its is a conspiracy theory until you prove its happening.

Scuderia_Russ · Post 07 Apr 2006, 20:31

I've got a lot of time for you Manchild but quite frankly your personal vendetta against Michael Schumacher and Ferrari is starting to make you look quite foolish.

manchild · Post 07 Apr 2006, 21:55

Scuderia_Russ wrote:I've got a lot of time for you Manchild but quite frankly your personal vendetta against Michael Schumacher and Ferrari is starting to make you look quite foolish.

I have no problem with being treated here like Stoddy was treated by FIA.

By changing wings after FIA's hint Ferrari prooved that thay've cheated again during frist 2 races and that Schuey equilised pole record and bragged about it while it was done with "dirty" car. So, if I'm continuing to point out to what they are doing than it is because they're continuing to cheat which is not something caused by me but by them (not to mention CF rings glued to rims).

RacingManiac · Post 07 Apr 2006, 22:32

when was CF ring on the rim illegal? or again that would be a movable aero device.....Ferrari's wing is "illegal" and Renault's is only vibration, I'd be surprise if the wing moves by that much through sheer vibration will not move when 800-1000lb of aero load is on it. And yet it will still be as legal as the lettering of the rule allows. Which btw, although is written by the FIA is applied to ALL the teams, so maybe we should be laughing at those who does not use it to their advantage? I mean Ferrari did, Renault did, BMW did, McLaren did......

its only internet....its only internet....

kilcoo316 · Post 07 Apr 2006, 22:32

So what about McLaren and BMW revising wing designs to comply with the FIA's desire to avoid setting further testing procedures?

Could you again point out exactly what rule they were breaking?

manchild · Post 08 Apr 2006, 02:14

I'm not denying that BMW and Mclaren did the same thing as Ferrari.

[EDF]Fx · Post 08 Apr 2006, 06:15

MAnchild: As usual your arguments lacks logic. If the other teams feel that they are being treated unfair by the FIA then why doesnt they take the FIA to court ? I can imagine that even under french law you actually have to prove your case or your case will be thrown out.

I supose you could try facts and logic but then that wouldnt be as fun now would it ?

/ Fx

manchild · Post 08 Apr 2006, 13:17

[EDF]Fx wrote:MAnchild: As usual your arguments lacks logic. If the other teams feel that they are being treated unfair by the FIA then why doesnt they take the FIA to court ? I can imagine that even under french law you actually have to prove your case or your case will be thrown out.

I supose you could try facts and logic but then that wouldnt be as fun now would it ?

/ Fx

Jean Todt being appointed by FIA to represent all F1 teams without their consent is logical enough. Only there you have 5 facts/arguments (logical things):

-first that he is indeed Ferrari team boss which certainly causes conflict of interests
-second that he was appointed by FIA which prooves FIA's unfair politics
-third that F1 teams never authorized him to represent them
-fourth that he doesn't care about that and continues to "represent" teams
-fifth that he is being anounced as next FIA president by current FIA president without any elections at all in the time when teams are being forced to sign concorde agreement.

Having in mind past, presence and future under such corrupted organisation no wonder GPMA does what is does.

Apart from this, having 2 members of FIA WMC from one team and not a single member from any other team and all of this not because of teams refusal but because of FIA's decision is enough to call such situation as hypocrite (at least).

BTW, FIA can’t be put on trial, that’s the problem and loophole Mosley and Ferrari use all these years.

[EDF]Fx · Post 08 Apr 2006, 13:37

So you are actually saying that national law doesnt apply to the FIA ? I find that rather illogical not mention completely wrong.

btw the FIA has been taken to civil court before.

/ Fx

manchild · Post 08 Apr 2006, 15:20

I'm not sure but FIA is only located in Paris - it is not French institution so I don't see why any French court would be incharge of dealing with matter inside international organisation as FIA (I suppose that only some international court could deal with charges against FIA).

For example, FIA could be acting illegaly but if that isn't sanctioned by French law than I don't see how French courts could prosecute such cases.

mcdenife · Post 08 Apr 2006, 17:30

I'm not sure but FIA is only located in Paris - it is not French institution so I don't see why any French court would be incharge of dealing with matter inside international organisation as FIA (I suppose that only some international court could deal with charges against FIA).

For example, FIA could be acting illegaly but if that isn't sanctioned by French law than I don't see how French courts could prosecute such cases.

International institution or not the FIA is subject to French law as they are based in France. Civil issues are another matter but someone has to have sued them first and who is going to do that - I rephrase; which of the governed is going to do that when the FIA has been known to go out its way to make life difficult. Witness his threat against Stoddard in Australia last year or against Coulthard and the drivers after Indie last year.
But Manchild does have a point. Aside from the fact that the FIA has made rulings, [mis-]judgements, rule changes etc that favoured Ferrari in the past, how can the other competitors (in any sport) have any confidence in the governance of any sport which has members of a rival team/competitor in its governing body. The fact that the FIA has also made some decisions (though not as many) that APPEARED not to favour Ferrari is irrelevant. It may be 2 out of 23 but the fact they are there means they will be a party to decisions reached and can therefore influence those decisions in some way shape or form if they choose to.
The FIA did not ask the teams to choose a representative from their ranks
which would be the logical, rational and sane thing to do. No, they not only appointed one themselves, they chose from the one team they should not have considered given the recent history of the sport. The net result are the justified cries of bias, collusion, mis-management, mis-judgement etc. There is a reason, in law, why the procedure to chose members of a jury are vigorous. The result of doing otherwise is a lack of confidence in the law or justice.
The only facts that matters here are hows, why's and 'wherefore' those 2 are members of the FIA WMC.

[EDF]Fx · Post 08 Apr 2006, 20:03

manchild wrote: For example, FIA could be acting illegaly but if that isn't sanctioned by French law than I don't see how French courts could prosecute such cases.

Are you actually saying that if the actions of the FIA isnt in compliance of french law then you cant see how that falls under the french courts jurisdiction ? Im dont know how the French legalsystem works but Im pretty sure it does. Or if you are trying to say that illegal actions by the FIA that are in compliance with french law doesnt fall under the the french courts jurisdiction then you are completely right because an action that complies with the law is by definition not illegal.

Either way I find your reasoning illogical.

English is not my mother tongue so maybe I have missunderstood something in your posts but they sure look contradictory to me.

/ Fx