McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

[marekk]

I have to agree with ringo - 800kgf of FW downforce seems to bee way overestimated.

Assuming FW is 35% of total, DW of the whole car at high downforce configuration would be 2285 kgf, and as L/D in high downforce configuration would be around 1.4, resulting drag should be around 1600kgf.

They would deccelerate > 2g just from going off throttle, and need 1,6MW engine to go to 360kph.

So my guess is around half of this at Monaco.

[ESPImperium]

Monaco and Hungaroring are the only racces they dont have to worry about the penalty of drag, so they bolt on as much downforce as physically posible to get the car to stick to the track.

[ell66]

Monaco and Hungaroring are the only racces they dont have to worry about the penalty of drag, so they bolt on as much downforce as physically posible to get the car to stick to the track.

same with singapore i believe.

anybody else suprised that there only bringing small updates to turkey? have they got something big in the pipeline?

[Byronrhys]

Monaco and Hungaroring are the only racces they dont have to worry about the penalty of drag, so they bolt on as much downforce as physically posible to get the car to stick to the track.

same with singapore i believe.

anybody else suprised that there only bringing small updates to turkey? have they got something big in the pipeline?

Yes I think they have something big in the pipeline, but most teams are bringing the big updates to barcelona so its nothing strange.

[ringo]

They look satisfied, maybe they are very comfortable with something that isn't very obvious. Maybe the KERS?
In fact all the teams seem very comfortable with the ass kicking Redbull is dishing out race after race.
But if they can win China on merrit, they should be able to win turkey with Hamilton's driving again and some good strategy.

I have a feeling though Renault can come between them and redbull. The tiny little updates can be risky while the other teams are making big steps.

[scarlet]

I get the feeling they still haven't quite got full understanding of how the car and more importantly the tyres behave (nothing more than fan intuition!), so a small upgrade package might even be preferable before the big stuff comes along for Barca.

[beelsebob]

They look satisfied, maybe they are very comfortable with something that isn't very obvious. Maybe the KERS?
In fact all the teams seem very comfortable with the ass kicking Redbull is dishing out race after race.
But if they can win China on merrit, they should be able to win turkey with Hamilton's driving again and some good strategy.

I have a feeling though Renault can come between them and redbull. The tiny little updates can be risky while the other teams are making big steps.

In reality, these guys are scientists – they're trying to understand what's going on. In science you don't go changing lots of variables at the same time, because you'll never figure out what caused any one result. The only time these guys might ever do that is when they're getting their ass handed to them, and being *competitive* scientists, they need to panic something together.

Given that the RB7 is not handing them their ass *that* badly, I'm betting they're going down the slow, relentless progress route, safe in the knowledge that their relentless progress will be faster than everyone else's.

[shamikaze]

Given that the RB7 is not handing them their ass *that* badly, I'm betting they're going down the slow, relentless progress route, safe in the knowledge that their relentless progress will be faster than everyone else's.

One of the first quote's I learned when studying for my masters-degree was "continous improvement beats delayed perfection".

[tok-tokkie]

In reality, these guys are scientists – they're trying to understand what's going on. In science you don't go changing lots of variables at the same time, because you'll never figure out what caused any one result. The only time these guys might ever do that is when they're getting their ass handed to them, and being *competitive* scientists, they need to panic something together.

Given that the RB7 is not handing them their ass *that* badly, I'm betting they're going down the slow, relentless progress route, safe in the knowledge that their relentless progress will be faster than everyone else's.

Off topic if I may:

As an Engineer I am puzzled that engineers are referred to as scientists when the context is good but as engineers when the context is bad. A scientific triumph when something good happens but an engineering disaster in the other case. It explains why the social status of engineers is so low in your society and the whithering of the British manufacturing industries. Are you aware of the distinction you make between so-called engineers & scientists? (I ask the question in the context of society & not personally.)

[beelsebob]

In reality, these guys are scientists – they're trying to understand what's going on. In science you don't go changing lots of variables at the same time, because you'll never figure out what caused any one result. The only time these guys might ever do that is when they're getting their ass handed to them, and being *competitive* scientists, they need to panic something together.

Given that the RB7 is not handing them their ass *that* badly, I'm betting they're going down the slow, relentless progress route, safe in the knowledge that their relentless progress will be faster than everyone else's.

Off topic if I may:

As an Engineer I am puzzled that engineers are referred to as scientists when the context is good but as engineers when the context is bad. A scientific triumph when something good happens but an engineering disaster in the other case. It explains why the social status of engineers is so low in your society and the whithering of the British manufacturing industries. Are you aware of the distinction you make between so-called engineers & scientists? (I ask the question in the context of society & not personally.)

They're not, they're referred to as engineers when they're building things, and scientists when they're experimenting to find the best solution to something.

I don't think engineers are always cast in a bad light – go watch the news when a beautiful new bridge is opened. And I don't think scientists are always cast in a good light – go watch the news when the discussion swings to *anything* vaguely ethically controversial to do with biology.

That said – I think a large portion of british society treats both engineers *and* scientists terribly. There seems to have been a reinforcement of the frankenstein's monster theory recently, that we are all out to stick bolts through everyone's neck and take over the world.

[shamikaze]

We are all out to stick bolts through everyone's neck and take over the world.

And what is wrong with that / off-topc

[PlatinumZealot]

Given that the RB7 is not handing them their ass *that* badly, I'm betting they're going down the slow, relentless progress route, safe in the knowledge that their relentless progress will be faster than everyone else's.

One of the first quote's I learned when studying for my masters-degree was "continous improvement beats delayed perfection".

I like that quote.

[donskar]

Given that the RB7 is not handing them their ass *that* badly, I'm betting they're going down the slow, relentless progress route, safe in the knowledge that their relentless progress will be faster than everyone else's.

One of the first quote's I learned when studying for my masters-degree was "continous improvement beats delayed perfection".

Good one! So is:
"Don't let perfect be the enemy of good."

[Just_a_fan]

That said – I think a large portion of british society treats both engineers *and* scientists terribly.

Sadly I think that the "celeb" role model has taken over from the engineering role model of the Victorian era. There was a time when the UK looked to its engineers and scientists to generate wealth and jobs - now the population looks to celebs and the "quickly rich and famous" route for "inspiration".

Science related subjects are "difficult" (well, they require application) but the system makes it easy for people to gain qualifications in "soft" subjects. Indeed, the system is geared to numbers of good grades, not good grades in good subjects. And then there's the issue that those with a scientific bent are now "nerds" etc. and are sneered at. Of course, the nerds so often end up with money in their pockets where the rest end up working in shops / call centres. But hey-ho.

[adrianjordan]

That said – I think a large portion of british society treats both engineers *and* scientists terribly.

Sadly I think that the "celeb" role model has taken over from the engineering role model of the Victorian era. There was a time when the UK looked to its engineers and scientists to generate wealth and jobs - now the population looks to celebs and the "quickly rich and famous" route for "inspiration".

Science related subjects are "difficult" (well, they require application) but the system makes it easy for people to gain qualifications in "soft" subjects. Indeed, the system is geared to numbers of good grades, not good grades in good subjects. And then there's the issue that those with a scientific bent are now "nerds" etc. and are sneered at. Of course, the nerds so often end up with money in their pockets where the rest end up working in shops / call centres. But hey-ho.

Couldn't agree more if I tried.

I started an electrical engineering degree after completing my A Levels but didn't take to the course and instead of transferring to another course decided to have a break and earn some money while I decided what I wanted to do. Of course then life got in the way and I never went back to Uni. Now I'm in a boring job that numbs my mind, but I'm also working through a Science degree with the Open University which will hopefully allow me to go on to better things in a few year's time (better still with no student debt). Unlike some of my coworkers who have huge student loans to go with their degrees in History, Sociology etc who are earning less than me doing the same job because they started after me...(in a call centre btw)...