Virgin MVR-02 Cosworth

[TzeiTzei]

Now they have to figure out why they are going backwards compared to last year as well. So they have a system of design and engineering that isn't working for them, and now they have to figure out what is wrong with the system while designing a whole new kind of car.

To me it's quite obvious, that the main priority of this car was originally to improve the reliability and get a lot of miles in testing and the first fly away races. Wirth also mentioned at the car's launch, that this is the car they will have until Turkey, where they are going to introduce a significant aeroupdate. But I guess they never realised how much the other teams had improved their cars and how far back the mvr-02 would be on pace.

Yes, they have been disappointing and struggling quite a lot so far. But before completely trashing Wirth and his CFD, we should wait and see how these upgrades actually work. There is chance that they might make significant gains with these upgrades, and suddenly they would be challenging Lotus once again.

But making progress is the most important thing. From what I've heard Glock will be driving the "b-spec" car, while d'Ambrosio would be left circling around with the old one. If Glock can get within a second from the Lotuses (and maybe 4 secs off the pole), then that's already a step forward and a positive sign.

[siwillems]

Has anybody got any info on the planned upgrades yet and what they have acheived and will be bringing to turkey. The uppgrades must be well underway if not actualy produced and awaiting first practice by now at the turkey grand prix?

[Holm86]

I still cant understand that Virgin is so conservative in their design.

Look how many ideas and imagination people in this forum has on their models??

That shouldnt take long to run through some CFD.

Perhaps CFD only design is allright but it needs ideas and so far virgins hasnt got any.

[marcush.]

I still believe wirth is right not to be too ambitious.What would you say if the design was looking outrageous and still would not cut it?
Wirth is a dreamer and has no idea what is necessary.
So he´s playing it clean and conservative and tries not to fall over his own feet.The guys learn and they need to learn quick.now they have found reliability they can think about more outlandish designs,don´t you think?
They will not compete with the frontrunners anyways.And:lets assume they bring forward all their ideas ...all the competition would look up the interesting stuff and the gap would increase instead of decrease...I would have tried the nsmikle ways.copy the Bull as good as you can..

[ESPImperium]

I still cant understand that Virgin is so conservative in their design.

Look how many ideas and imagination people in this forum has on their models??

That shouldnt take long to run through some CFD.

Perhaps CFD only design is allright but it needs ideas and so far virgins hasnt got any.

I think thats what is needed at Wirth Research, imagination and spark. Someone with a little blue sky thining. Someone with a inner maverick. Someone that can think outside the "box" for lack of a better and less corperate team talk speak.

They need someone that can take the team by the scruff or the neck and drag its arse thrugh into a design thats fast, has downforce and can join the midfeild runners.

I think that the ego of Wirth may have something as well, he dosnt like others in the department stealing the limelight what may be somthing that he didnt think of. Look at mcLaren with the F-Duct and Honda/Brawn with the DDD, it wasnt the top guy that thought of it, it was one of the workers that went in with a little spark, a little bit of "this is the rule" and "This is is how to get arround it" into a design meeting.

I also think that what they design team at Wirth are putting into the CFD is coming out wrong in terms of numbers, they need a tunnel to verify and back up the CFD numbers to what they are getting on track.

I think the report that Wirth will recive from Pat Symmonds in about 6 weeks time will be telling as he is spending a week in each and every depertment of the team and then taking 2 weeks to write a report.

If someone was to run thru LegendaryM, JordanGP or any other guy from heres design in a CFD program and got numbers and compaired them to what say Wirth is getting from the MVR/02 im sure the numbers would be better than a actual real world car.

I have a feeling that Hispania will pass Virgin sometime this season, and next make a dent into the gap to the midfeild and go from there.

[marcush.]

I don´t believe in :if it looks fancy it´s quick as well.

Wirth clearly keeps basic because the CFD is not allowing him more detail? It would make sense to establish proven baselines before going lunatic or resorting to blue skies..learn to walk before trying to fly...
The Virgin does not look too conservative it is just a bit vanilla ..to wait for the competition and then decide what to choose is maybe a good move...
at this time RBR seems to be the way to go in terms of exhaust..

[nacho]

He needs one of those Japanese miniature wind-tunnels.

[Holm86]

I don´t believe in :if it looks fancy it´s quick as well.

Wirth clearly keeps basic because the CFD is not allowing him more detail? It would make sense to establish proven baselines before going lunatic or resorting to blue skies..learn to walk before trying to fly...
The Virgin does not look too conservative it is just a bit vanilla ..to wait for the competition and then decide what to choose is maybe a good move...
at this time RBR seems to be the way to go in terms of exhaust..

But the VR-02 looks dull and goes even worse.

If it was because they wanted to establish a proven baseline then why not rent a wind tunnel to check up and calibrate their data??

I still dont get it. They need people with better ideas in their design apartment.

[ESPImperium]

I aggree that the MVR/02 is ugly as sin, the VR/01 was at least pleasing on the eye, and a car that would have been better developed this year, as i think the 2011 car is a car that looks too clunky.

[bot6]

It's basically the same sluggish car with a couple of up/downgrades...

[marcush.]

as I understand they went to Stuttgart university s 5t belt tunnel with the VR01 and did baseline their car last year...
I´m not sure if the narrow rolling road approach is not creating more trouble and inconsistencies than it solves ..but at least the car did see a tunnel.
To me this does not look like a lack of ideas but a lack of funds available for development.When I´m desperate to make improvements I´ll come up with new things as soon as I realise that the current animal is not going any further.Just look at how quick Wirth came up with a longer tub and bigger tank last year when it was his reponisbility and furthermore his money the exercise was really a whole new everything from the cockpit rearwards :tub,floor,wiring,installations,bodywork...
something does not fit here.

[Florio]

Especially as Wirth was very pleased at the fact that they had tripled their CFD facilities power, I remember him saying that if they did one days of wind tunnel testing they would be breaking the rules.

Unless it's something like major exhaust changes, in whihc he wants as much simulation on the behaviours as possible, I can't think as to why they are so slow.

[marcush.]

this years car was designed without the help of the new improved CFD recources and Wirth relocated over winter as well..something that could be a reason for them getting a hickup?
I´d think as soon as they are on full song with their Computational potential we see them making progress.In fact the talk was that this turkey upgrade was the first step with the new equipment.

[zgred]

[Byronrhys]

So Lotus, HRT and Virgin all have different noses now , essentially