Red Bull RB7 Renault

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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Shaddock
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Joined: 07 Nov 2006, 14:39
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Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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speedsense wrote:
If the "wires" are in fact cables of some metal origin, how exactly do you structurally change the wing strength by pulling through the wing supports of the nose with cables, especially carbon fiber ones? Pulling in this matter would only bow the wing not strengthen it.
If the cables are connected at the tip of the wings (front and aft) and the run in channels to the centre before heading up the pylons to the rear of the nose cone, then they could act to stiffen the wing. The cables would be put under tension so that any downwards flex in the wing would be opposed by the cables as they would need to lengthen or 'stretch' to accommodate this. All perfectly legal.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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Flexible wing again... :roll: The car is legal; it just has more rake, the FW makes a ton of downforce and all wings flex, some more than others. So when you put those all together...
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bgroovers
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Joined: 16 Oct 2008, 17:15

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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If you pass an electric current through some materials they can become less rigid and there for allow the wing to flex more than it would in the static load test in parc ferme. This of course would be totally illegal id have thought and risk getting the team and designer banned so highly unlikely... :wink:

marekk
marekk
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Joined: 12 Feb 2011, 00:29

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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As said previously, at 2mm diameter (thats what i see more or less) Plasma rope made of Spectra fibers has tensile strenght of > 6kN - and we have 2 of them on either side. You can hang the whole car with driver on them.

Nothing illegal in cables per se - as long as there is no active mechanism to change the tension, it's just a structural part of the wing.

FredFlint
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Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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I cant find a screenshot anywhere, but they did a thermal image of the RB and inside the front wing there were noticable hot areas.

Maybe they are using heating elements?

I cant think of any other reason why sections in the wing would be hot, the rest at ambient?

Isak
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Joined: 02 Feb 2011, 16:57

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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FredFlint wrote:I cant find a screenshot anywhere, but they did a thermal image of the RB and inside the front wing there were noticable hot areas.

Maybe they are using heating elements?

I cant think of any other reason why sections in the wing would be hot, the rest at ambient?
During which broadcast was this shown?

FredFlint
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Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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BBC - qual yesterday. The car was sat in the garage ready to go out.

FredFlint
FredFlint
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Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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We will probaly never find it unless somebody recorded it.

I have edited a picture from google though to give a rough idea of what it looked like.

Image

CHT
CHT
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Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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Dragonfly wrote:This picture is posted by zgred two pages back and I see no comment on it.
Heating elements in the wheels anybody?
This hunt for illegal construction is becoming ridiculous. If RBR apply a wing with adjustable flexing features, it would be a blatant violation of the rules with very grave consequences when discovered. I very much doubt RBR risking so much.
Image
Cant this be a temperature sensor wire for the brakes? if they are doing something illegal, I would presume they will be hiding it instead of expose it at the garage.

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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heating -with that cable thingy? comeon what do you think you can heat with this wire gauge?
Compare this with the brake line also dangling around..it´s very surprising to see only so few cables there ..you surely cannot run all the sensors on the Upright just by a CAN connection...unfortunatelly the pic does not show the connector itself.. :cry:

i70q7m7ghw
i70q7m7ghw
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Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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speedsense wrote:
Diesel wrote:The cables won't be for any kind of active system, those are clearly illegal so throw that idea out the window now.

If the cables aren't for sensors (which is most likely) then I suspect they will be structural. Most likely they provide tension when the wing begins to flex, and they are probably tuned to meet the FIA test. Possibly they went this route so they could adjust the flex of the front wing without having to redesign it? I mean, the FIA adjusted the test so much last year they needed an easier way to adjust it so it passed. They saved time an money while all the other teams had to build new wings :lol:

This is the real conspiracy, the wings don't give any performance gain, they just waste the teams resources :lol:
Wires, especially 18-22 gauge (common for data logging), coated with High temp Raychem, don't stand a chance against from being pulled apart from the impact (which would stretch the raychem to break it, exposing the wires inside). No exposed wires are visible on either the wings or the nose bits. Secondly the shredded Carbon Fiber bits are like razor blades and would slice through said wiring like butter.
If indeed it were optic fiber data logging wire, again shredded Carbon Fiber could also slice easily through it, though OF has higher tensile strength in pulling of it. However, in the photo optic fiber cannot bend to such angles as the exposed wires are in.
What type of sensor would it be? Load cells or stain gauges?

If there are aero taps in the the wing and these "wires" are small rubber tubes to carry pressure to their sensors, where are the exposed taps on the wing? Or the flush mounted holes? Again rubber is easily sliced as well by CF and offers 0 resistance to pulling forces.
On a third note, if they are wing adjuster cables, why add weight (which Newey is very picky about) to create an adjuster in the nose rather that an adjuster right at the wing, easily reached by a tire guy? I don't recall ever seeing a wing adjustment at RBR made at the nose.

If the "wires" are in fact cables of some metal origin, how exactly do you structurally change the wing strength by pulling through the wing supports of the nose with cables, especially carbon fiber ones? Pulling in this matter would only bow the wing not strengthen it.

Though one could speculate (the conspiracy) that some type of mechanical device that exists inside the wing (for strengthening or structurally weakening the internal wing support) that is operated by pulling with cables to add/remove lateral strength to the wing piece intended to flex. This would mean that it can be operated by the driver in some fashion and would be illegal.
The guy in the picture carrying the wing makes no attempt to cover up any of the wing bits as he carried them in full view of teams in pit lane, so either the guy is unaware of their importance or they aren't important at all (for others to view)
Though if the motive was to cheat, the less people that know the better to keep it a secret. IMHO
So you've ruled out everything suggested? What do you think they could be?

IMO - Red Bull would not knowingly cheat, they can't risk getting caught. If something is going on, it will be down to rule interpretation.

hollowBallistix
hollowBallistix
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Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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The cables allow an electric current to be applied to the front wing, the shape-memory fibres that it's manufactured out of (much like Shape memory polymer) align into a semi-rigid form resembling a standard front wing.

The current is then removed out on track & the front wing becomes flexible.

This technology was brought to you by the Wayne Corporation, and has been used by Batman :lol:

FredFlint
FredFlint
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Joined: 08 May 2011, 11:10

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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How else can the heat in the wing be explained?

It was exactly where I have drawn on that pic, the rest of the wing was dark.

It was two rectangular shapes, approx 6 inches long, 2 inches wide.

I'm not saying that in a 'this is fact' way, its just I cannot see any reason why the wing would have these hot bits unless it was done on purpose.

Do load sensors get hot??? I dunno

Richied76
Richied76
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Joined: 18 Aug 2010, 21:04

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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contained plastic/polymer I beams? they sit between the central part and the wing plane itself holding in place (level) when cold? They become heated and soft to allow flex? Then sat ofter the race they become stiff and ridged again stopping them from drooping under load. The memory effect of the thin walled carbon wind being enough to hold them back into there orginal shape while becoming ridged again???

andrew
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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They are heating the front wing? Seriously?! Is this for the mechanics to have a quick fry-up during a pit stop? :wtf:

Are you suggesting that as the wing heats it becomes more supple?

Seeing as the FIA went scurrying into the Red Bull garage to investigate and found nothing I think it is safe to say there is no conspriacy or anything untoward going on - shocker(!)

The most obvious and simple answer is that these are merely sensors for measuring wing flex or air speed or something innocent like that.

The most obvious answer is often the solution. :wink: