Mercedes GP W02

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I havent seen any itenary for Mercedes' upgrades.

I also dont think the exhaust is heating the tyres to the point of making them degrade quicker. They would have been aware of the heat flow around the rear and would certianly have been aware of any tyre heating issues.

I think we may see them copy Red Bulls exhaust. It saw Mclaren leap forward a second, and I'm pretty sure if its incorporated competantly we will see them move forward.

Adding the front wing will only come once that rear end is sorted, then we will see what the W02 can do.

An excerpt form Autosport:

"We knew we had a little bit of vulnerability on high fuel so I think we are going to have to think again about how we approach priorities over the weekend, because when we got into the race we started blistering the rear tyres which we hadn't seen in practice," Brawn told the BBC. "So that's why we fell away so quickly.

"Then as the fuel load came down that problem went away and the pace picked up and we started to get respectable again.

"We had run [the fuel level] in practice but obviously we were short of time because of the rain, and while we ran Friday afternoon with high fuel, we didn't see that problem. I think what's clear in this racing is that qualifying is probably the least critical thing now and having a good race set-up with the correct number of [sets of] tyres is the most important thing."

Ross Brawn

[marcush.]

soso..Mr.Brawn speaks sense...
It was very clear from early on that you need to save as many fresh tyres as possible and give a --- on grid position -if you have a reliable KERS and good overtaking speed.
You cannot afford to ruin the tyres with silly overtaking battles as well ...the tyres do not forgive any overdriving-the bucket full of water is a perfect analogy i´d think...
So the next step will be to perfect pit stops and pit stop timing.This is crucial now as you can destroy the new mounted set in trying to regain track position...The key is to keep the driver out of traffic as the main objective when on fresh rubber.

[jav]

This team is so frustrating. The success in China was largely attributed to a prioritizing practice on basic setup while heavy. So what- did they abandone that? Why are they AGAIN rethinking how they approach priorities becuase of vulnerability on high fuel load?? They didn't see this in FP given China's successful approach? Who's gathering tire/load data in FP in order to set strategy for Sunday?

Every team is using Pirelli- why is Merc the only major team NOT significantly faster with options or struggling the most with tires....again?

[yener]

We can argue many more hours, but the fact is that MGP Wo2 is way too slow.
They need at least 0,8s to give the Redbull's a hard time. And they just can't.

I always thought that Ross Brawn was genius. But he isn't genius enough to make a copy of the flexi wing that RedBull uses.
They would win at least 0,2 seconds only on the front wing.

RedBull is so many lightyears ahead of MGP right now, that Vettel could win a race with 2 fingers in his nose and his legs crossed.

They already have it

Evidence?

And i dont know if it was coincidence, but he was at Ferrari when they had several flexing elements on the car. He won the championship with BGP because of the double diffuser and there is many more. Although he isn't a aerodevelopper. I think he has input on that part of the team.

I think MS is the one to blame for the poor speed of the car. I mean no offence, i am a really big fan of Michael. But he struggles all the time when Nico is way closer to a podium place each time.
I know that michael didn't like the new front wing which they brought to the first race and Nico didn't complain at all. I think issues like this really slows to develop the car.

Correct me if im wrong

[3one]

This team is so frustrating. The success in China was largely attributed to a prioritizing practice on basic setup while heavy. So what- did they abandone that? Why are they AGAIN rethinking how they approach priorities becuase of vulnerability on high fuel load?? They didn't see this in FP given China's successful approach? Who's gathering tire/load data in FP in order to set strategy for Sunday?

Every team is using Pirelli- why is Merc the only major team NOT significantly faster with options or struggling the most with tires....again?

What i think about this is that they still do what they did in China... The only thing is they didn't have any major upgrade on their packages unlike the upgrades made by RB, Mclaren and Ferrari...

Hopefully with the new exhaust come spain they may improve some more...
And with Merc having the most gains on this track during initial testings i hope this time they get their first win...

[marcush.]

The car has some speed but I think it´s just not the step forward needed.The fundamental flaws of 2010 have been carried over ,it is very setup sensitive and delicate with the tyres and somehow the technical team at the racetrack seems a bitr disconnected to the the guys at the homebase....they seem to be at a loss to explain certain characteristics of the car -they get unpleasantly surprised again and again.
Last race they suddenly were so much quicker in race trim than expected and now it´s unexplainably slow race pace on full tanks...The guys just don´t understand their tool well enough to fight for wins.
No wonder the drivers feel the need to compensate for the shortfalls of the technical equipment..but forcing the issue is not leading to anything .layback and get 100%out of what you got is the name of the game.

[siskue2005]

We can argue many more hours, but the fact is that MGP Wo2 is way too slow.
They need at least 0,8s to give the Redbull's a hard time. And they just can't.

I always thought that Ross Brawn was genius. But he isn't genius enough to make a copy of the flexi wing that RedBull uses.
They would win at least 0,2 seconds only on the front wing.

RedBull is so many lightyears ahead of MGP right now, that Vettel could win a race with 2 fingers in his nose and his legs crossed.

They already have it

Evidence?

They already have the High rake setup for Turkey...thats why they are fast...and RBR dont have flexy wings, its just high rake!

[dren]

The car at least looked quick in areas. They have come a long way since the first race. I only expect the team to improve relative to the competition as the season progresses. There is still hope for a win at some point. I am thinking Monaco is a good chance for them.

[roadwarrior]

What I found strange is that during FP, NR was bottoming out a lot more than MSC (especially around turn but in the race it was MSC that was bottoming out more. They must have changed the setup for some reason which seems to have hurt MSC as he clearly didn't have the pace of FP.

The W02 didn't look very planted around turn 8 and you could see and hear the MSC had to lift quite a bit more than the other drivers. Is this just lack of down force or likely to be attributed to having a short wheelbase?

I believe the team still don't fully understand how this car works and as mentioned above, I think they have a very narrow setup window and if they are outside that then they have no stability and kill their tyres.

It's my feeling that the engineers and mechanics at the track are lacking something. I just don't see the attention to detail that the other top teams have.

I just hope that Merc start getting their act together. We'll see at BCN at what upgrades they have and how effective they will be. I just hope it's not another 2010 where the upgrades don't work or make things worse.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Mercedes do not have any rake worthy of mentioning other than whatthey ran before.
Testimony to this is the fact the car was scraping its bum through turn 8.

The only changes we have to this car is the cooling solution, and the refined DRS.
That is since Barcelona testing.

How many updates have Mclaren Red Bull and Ferrari introduced since then? Alot.
Mercedes will only introduce parts once they have made what they have work to its maximum, Haug said as much.

At Turkey the car was pretty much the same car other than cooling solutions and refined DRS. The problem Mercedes suffered was heat related, something that didnt happen in China.
In addition the track is far bumpier than China's smooth surface, so it is more than just ambient temprature.
Looking at the enviroments, I will say Mercedes will be far more competitive at cooler smoother tracks(Spa, and other tracks with smooth surface and cool ambients). Where they may suffer horrifically is Canada.

Unless of course Mercedes have a solution for the rear tyres. But one thing is clear for me, the W02 is providing real glimpses that Mercedes are making progress.

[jav]

.... But one thing is clear for me, the W02 is providing real glimpses that Mercedes are making progress.

Progress in relation to where W02 started- which was rather diappointing given the head start. The fact is that at this point, they are behind where they were last year with a then self proclaimed "flawed" design. At this rate of "progress", perhaps we can expect to be 6th at this point next season?

[Ferraripilot]

Unless of course Mercedes have a solution for the rear tyres. But one thing is clear for me, the W02 is providing real glimpses that Mercedes are making progress.

I agree they are making good progress. They are currently like so many teams in that they have to use the actual race as a testing session as they still have not 100% figured out their car. That being said, the car is sort of all over the map but it has proven very capable coming just behind the Red Bulls in qualifying. I would think their new Toyota suspension guy has his hands full deducing the rear tire issue not to mention what the new exhaust system may bring in terms of rear end behavior.

They reinvented the wheel with the W02 in their minds therefore their solutions may not be traditional solutions either. It's this sort of paradigm that wins championships, not copying whatever RB is up to.

[atanatizante]

I don't like this years formula 1 to much. Only for one reason, the tyres. I like, DRS and KERS, they make everything very exciting but with the tyres my problem is that the tyres are crap literally. I am not interested in which driver is the most gentle with the tyres. And it can't be that if to drivers fight after the duel their lap time fall 1-2s. The problems is if you design tyres that last only 6-10 laps, that means that only a small driver error where he pushes litlle to much (slide, wheel lock,...) ruins the tyre, and he reduces the 10 laps to four laps or something. Has anyone noticed that nowdays hardly anyone falls out because of driver error, no more wheel locks, driving on the limit. Also if a car has a tiny miss balance that will directly influence the tyres and the driver will loose time.

I think that in F1 it should all be about racing who can put the maximum from the car. And if all enginners are trying to make the best possible material they can it can't be that the Pireeli guys are investing millions in to a Tyre that lasts as least as possible, that makes no sense.Miles per gallon contest and who can watch their tyres better contests should be left to the general public.

If people would like more stops, what the heck make 2-3 stops mandatory, a easy solution. You can be sure that the stops will still not happen at the same time, their will still be some strategy. And saying that would be artificial, it all artificial nowadays.

In todays formula even Senna would suck, because he would blow his tyre in 1/2 a lap. And I don't blame Schumacher for not dominating anymore beacuse it's a totaly differnet contest this days. In his 20+ carrier he rarrly practised to drive gently or take care of the tyres, it was always to drive full throttle as fast as you can. But nowadays he can't go full trothlle even on one LAP in Q3. So one can't blame him really. I wished people would invest this millions in F1 also for anlysing how racing should really be and not making this fundamental decisions ad-hoc.

I`m on the same wavelength with you dude. This F1 is not for Michel and the bad thing is the fact that he was aware of that way back in 2009 when he signed for Merc, unfortunately for us who thought it would come back to go for the 8th WDC. We have to face the facts that he is here just for 2 reasons: 1. To help the team with his knowledge (both winning and car development skills) and put them into a winning position and 2.Just for pure fun, because you have to realize from a racer point of view that he doesn`t have anything to prove anymore and to anybody. And even if he wants that he doesn`t have the same motivation, reflexes and (as well you have been spotted) the right F1 for his style anymore. Good bay F1 for pure racers and welcome F1 for pure “softers”. Nowadays is no more formula Senna, is formula Prost.

And yes in order to change this farce the solution is to make at least 3 mandatory stops but with one big correction: the tyres must last at least 15 laps for the soft ones. They could do some changes even this year switching the tyres policy with harder one, e.g. for this race (Turkey) they must have been medium and extra hard tyres with mandatory 3 stops, don`t you think?

[atanatizante]

...

I believe the team still don't fully understand how this car works and as mentioned above, I think they have a very narrow setup window and if they are outside that then they have no stability and kill their tyres.

...

They certainly don`t fully understand and the proof of that is Rosberg`s statement on Friday after FP2:

“There’s not one reason, it’s just a lot of things coming together where we weren’t working the car well, and now getting the most out of it. One area is even mechanical, very simple things where we went in the wrong direction so we moved back in another direction with the springs and bars. For example, even that area definitely gave us a chunk of lap time. We confused ourselves a little bit.”
Source:http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... berg-says/

And AGAIN this year they have a small window setup that are worsening things around ...

[atanatizante]

... The fundamental flaws of 2010 have been carried over ,it is very setup sensitive and delicate with the tyres ...

They have AGAIN a small window setup or they didn`t reach the sweet spot yet? A agree with you it`s a déjà vu from 2010 and someone here told us that to blame on this is the old Honda team in England … Weren`t they gone in 2010?
Another interesting issue is to quantify the ups and downs results regarding performance from Malaysia, China and here:

Malaysia: RB ↑, McL ↓, Ferrari ↑, MB ↓, Renault ↑,
China: RB ↓, McL ↑, Ferrari ↓, MB ↑, Renault ↓,
Turkey: RB ↑, McL ↓, Ferrari ↑, MB ↓, Renault ↑

Regarding to MB are these temperature, small window setup or circuit characteristics related?