Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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Mr Alcatraz
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Joined: 18 May 2008, 15:10
Location: San Diego Ca. USA

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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As for the pit stop release, IMO it should be a little more black and white, like a lot of rules in F1 should be. As to running on a guys wing all the way out of the lane, I think it should be allowed only because (if I understand how the pit speed limiter works. Can you brake while on it and then release without disengaging the limiter)? If so than the second car released should fall into line behind the one it was slung on to. If you have to reengage it what if you come up with a box of neutral? Although not very likely you could affect another car incoming, and IMO you are
better off just staying on the limiter and just getting on with it.
Those who believe in telekinetics raise my hand

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HampusA
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Joined: 16 Feb 2011, 14:49

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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I think it´s BS to be honest. I can´t recall any pitcrew being involved in any incident reagrding to cars going side-by-side in pitlane.

Last year it was more tires going off at 100km/h or drivers completely missing their pitbox. And before that it was proabably mainly fires due to re-filling the car.

Silly if you ask me.
The truth will come out...

andrew
andrew
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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HampusA wrote:I think it´s BS to be honest. I can´t recall any pitcrew being involved in any incident reagrding to cars going side-by-side in pitlane.
That doesn't matter. It comes down to a question of health and safety. The idea is removing the risk so something horrible doesn't happen. Are you suggesting that drivers should be allowed to race in the pitlane until a mechanic is killed or injured?

My own opinion is that Ferrari did an unsafe release and they should be fined. Hamilton was innocent in this one (for once - it's an early Christmas miricle!) and Massa was acting on information given to him. Someone on the Ferrari pitwall made a blooper.

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HampusA
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Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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It does matter because nobody that i can ever recall has ever been injured by two cars going two-wide in pitlane.

As far as Ferrari, they were the ones going into the the pitbox therefore it´s 100% mclaren´s choice to either have a crash or to let Massa slip past.
The truth will come out...

andrew
andrew
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Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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HampusA wrote:It does matter because nobody that i can ever recall has ever been injured by two cars going two-wide in pitlane.

As far as Ferrari, they were the ones going into the the pitbox therefore it´s 100% mclaren´s choice to either have a crash or to let Massa slip past.
You clearly know nothing about health and safety and accident prevention.

To apply your logic, I will not wear a seat belt when driving but will only do so once I have gone head first through the windscreen.

Hamilton was nearly alongside the Ferrari pit box when Ferrari released Massa, only for Massa to find a McLaren in his way. Unsafe release by Ferrari, open and shut case with no questions to my mind.

vall
vall
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Joined: 04 Nov 2008, 21:31

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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yeah, Massa should have slowed and lined behind. no ? about that.

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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andrew wrote:
HampusA wrote:I think it´s BS to be honest. I can´t recall any pitcrew being involved in any incident reagrding to cars going side-by-side in pitlane.
That doesn't matter. It comes down to a question of health and safety. The idea is removing the risk so something horrible doesn't happen. Are you suggesting that drivers should be allowed to race in the pitlane until a mechanic is killed or injured?

My own opinion is that Ferrari did an unsafe release and they should be fined. Hamilton was innocent in this one (for once - it's an early Christmas miricle!) and Massa was acting on information given to him. Someone on the Ferrari pitwall made a blooper.
Yep, not only does it make logical sense that Hamilton driving in a straight line down the pit lane should have no part in this, but it's codified in the rules...
23.1 j) It is the responsibility of the competitor to release his car after a pit stop only when it is safe to do so. The competitor must also provide a means of clearly establishing, when being viewed from the front of the car, when that car was released.

Bob

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Shrieker
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Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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Put your money on Vettel (coming from a Hamilton fan). The RB7 is just so fast and contrary to Webber, Vettel has really gelled in with the new car (ıf Webber is given equal machinery, that is). I was spectating at the general admission area outside of turn two; by lap 7 or 8 Vettel's engine sound and aggression over downshifts had notably toned down. By then everyone's body language around was indicating that they also new Vettel had it won bar a mechanical glitch or a pit stop mess up.

By this time (after 4 races) in 2010 Vettel was on 45 points and behind his rivals, but he still won come the end of the year. While one of the best surely, I still don't think he is *the best* driver around, but the with the RB7 Newey has done what he did going into '97 (fw 18 to fw 19), making the car a bit faster and a lot more reliable. Ferrari and McLaren need huge gains asap which I just can't see happening.

On a side note, Heidfeld and Petrov's cars sounded insane. It was like corn popping, m16 on auto fire and a jackhammer punching through concrete all at the same time. After a few laps the urge to put my earplugs on I could resist no more.

About the action shots I mentioned earliler in the thread. Well, I attempted to take a shot of the trailer truck which carries the drivers on the driver parade lap. It, and the shots from the Gp2 race all turned out disastrous lol. I'm afraid you'll have to make do with what's available on the net. Here http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/05/08/2 ... -pictures/ there are some very good shots, and hopefully our friend here http://www.hunnyf1.com/ will shortly be posting his work from the weekend. They're better than my best anyway.

This, from saturday, was taken by a fellow Turkish fan whom I met at the track. He was kind enough to send it to me via e-mail. I'm the dude at the far right, presenting the goods to the boss lol.
Image


It was ironic though that he made the mistake on lap 1 which ruined his race right in front of us. He went almost head to head into the corner with Webber but there just wasn't enough grip on the outside. I wonder if Hamilton (or anyone from the team) watches the support races. Cause a gp2 driver (don't know whom, was a red and yellow car) went off line in that very same corner, couldn't get the car to slow down went into the gravel and the barriers eventually. Similarly, some other driver from the Porsche cup who (again) attempted to take the corner from the outside line lost it completely and had a wild spin even before corner entry.


That's all for now. I have a little more coming up shortly; for the dinner's served 8)
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk

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HampusA
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Joined: 16 Feb 2011, 14:49

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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andrew wrote:
HampusA wrote:It does matter because nobody that i can ever recall has ever been injured by two cars going two-wide in pitlane.

As far as Ferrari, they were the ones going into the the pitbox therefore it´s 100% mclaren´s choice to either have a crash or to let Massa slip past.
You clearly know nothing about health and safety and accident prevention.

To apply your logic, I will not wear a seat belt when driving but will only do so once I have gone head first through the windscreen.

Hamilton was nearly alongside the Ferrari pit box when Ferrari released Massa, only for Massa to find a McLaren in his way. Unsafe release by Ferrari, open and shut case with no questions to my mind.
How may people have died when not using their seatbelt?
How many have been unjured when two F1 cars fo side by side.

Your logic is flawed here.

Was Hamilton pitting or did he already pitted? Big difference there.
The truth will come out...

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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HampusA wrote:How may people have died when not using their seatbelt?
How many have been unjured when two F1 cars fo side by side.

Your logic is flawed here.

Was Hamilton pitting or did he already pitted? Big difference there.
How many people have been uninjured from not wearing a seatbelt. How many people were uninjured not wearing a seatbelt before the first death that could have been saved by wearing it?

I would bet that the latter number is *way* higher than the number of mechanics not injured by having two F1 cars side by side in the pit lane.

You are the one with the flawed logic.

andrew
andrew
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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HampusA wrote: How may people have died when not using their seatbelt?
How many have been unjured when two F1 cars fo side by side.

Your logic is flawed here.

Was Hamilton pitting or did he already pitted? Big difference there.
My logic is perfectly sound! It's called accident prevention! I take it you are happy for the mechanics to get run over? Are they desposible and new ones readily available off the shelf in Tescos?

Hamilton pitting or already pitted is irrelevant. The fact is Ferrari performed an unsafe release. This is undeniable.

#-o

alelanza
alelanza
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Joined: 16 Jun 2008, 05:05
Location: San José, Costa Rica

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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beelsebob wrote:
Tumbarello wrote:I didn't much care for him and some of his comments but the way he conducted himself on the podium at Turkey last year made him grow hugely in my estimation. Here was a racer who refused to celebrate because he knew that it was mostly as a result of the misfortune of a colleague who was up there on the podium with him.
Yep, a lot of people criticise him for every victory being his best ever, and he does use the phrase too much when he's just had a great race. It does seem to get forgotten though that when he wins a race that he feels he didn't really deserve to win, he's rather overly subdued too. He's a clearly emotional guy, who likes to win F1 races properly. He considers "properly" to mean beating everyone in the field in a fair fight on the track. Pretty sure that's why JB and he get on so well – they both know they'll fight each other fairly. If only other teams/drivers followed the same philosophy.
Are you guys serious? that's not why he looked that way in Turkey '10. More to do with having Button attack him after he was told that wouldn't happen and to save fuel.
Alejandro L.

Twaddle
Twaddle
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Joined: 17 May 2010, 15:01

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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andrew wrote:
HampusA wrote: How may people have died when not using their seatbelt?
How many have been unjured when two F1 cars fo side by side.

Your logic is flawed here.

Was Hamilton pitting or did he already pitted? Big difference there.
My logic is perfectly sound! It's called accident prevention! I take it you are happy for the mechanics to get run over? Are they desposible and new ones readily available off the shelf in Tescos?

Hamilton pitting or already pitted is irrelevant. The fact is Ferrari performed an unsafe release. This is undeniable.

#-o
I don't agree with andrew all that often, but in this case he's very much right. It's about risk management, and having cars run side by side in the pit lane is unnecessarily risky. The fact that the risk has not been realized in a few side by side incidents in the past does not change this, and is certainly not an argument for it being safe.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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Pedro wrote:Pit-stop sumamry

Image
Looks like Goldie boy has golden pitstops too.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Racing Green in 2028

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HampusA
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Joined: 16 Feb 2011, 14:49

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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andrew wrote:
HampusA wrote: How may people have died when not using their seatbelt?
How many have been unjured when two F1 cars fo side by side.

Your logic is flawed here.

Was Hamilton pitting or did he already pitted? Big difference there.
My logic is perfectly sound! It's called accident prevention! I take it you are happy for the mechanics to get run over? Are they desposible and new ones readily available off the shelf in Tescos?

Hamilton pitting or already pitted is irrelevant. The fact is Ferrari performed an unsafe release. This is undeniable.

#-o
Accident prevention is a fantasy word. Lower the speed limit if you want "accident prevention" Strap all the piut crew with giant pillows, strap everybody close to an F1 car with giant pillows. then we can talk about real accident prevention.

What Ferrari did has been done by every single team out there. Nothing wrong with that according to FIA. Massa did tuck in behind Hamilton so i can´t see the problem.

Vettel and Alonso i think had the same issue last year where Vettel tried to push him to the right. The only mechanics close by was the ones infront of the guy that just pitted holding the air hoses.

Make everything out of rubber and remove the drivers and spectators if you want some real accident prevention.

What you are saying is just silly.
The truth will come out...