Mercedes GP W02

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

These set up flaws you guys are talking about have nothing to do with the the previous car.
Last years car couldn't turn in, visibly understeery.

This year the car chews rear tyres, on full tanks. On medium to low fuel loads the problem dissipates, so we can effectively say this is a tyre wear issue related to the rear of the car that could be solved by a more effective blown exhaust solution. Mercedes current setup works, but not well enough to catch red bull. It's not a million miles away from McLaren or ferrari either, both whom have far more complex systems.

We know that rosberg had to run 2 hard tyres during the gp. He ended up around 8 seconds adrift of Hamilton who only did 1 hard stint. So 12 laps on hards and he loses 1 second per lap and finished around 10 seconds off a Hamilton McLaren and overtook a button McLaren. Why do people not see that this is progress.

[ell66]

These set up flaws you guys are talking about have nothing to do with the the previous car.
Last years car couldn't turn in, visibly understeery.

This year the car chews rear tyres, on full tanks. On medium to low fuel loads the problem dissipates, so we can effectively say this is a tyre wear issue related to the rear of the car that could be solved by a more effective blown exhaust solution. Mercedes current setup works, but not well enough to catch red bull. It's not a million miles away from McLaren or ferrari either, both whom have far more complex systems.

We know that rosberg had to run 2 hard tyres during the gp. He ended up around 8 seconds adrift of Hamilton who only did 1 hard stint. So 12 laps on hards and he loses 1 second per lap and finished around 10 seconds off a Hamilton McLaren and overtook a button McLaren. Why do people not see that this is progress.

you fail to point out that lewis lost about 15 seconds in that one pit stop, and button held him up for the whole first stint.
and i doubt having a new exhaust system will cure there tyre eating problems.

[beelsebob]

We know that rosberg had to run 2 hard tyres during the gp. He ended up around 8 seconds adrift of Hamilton who only did 1 hard stint. So 12 laps on hards and he loses 1 second per lap and finished around 10 seconds off a Hamilton McLaren and overtook a button McLaren. Why do people not see that this is progress.

1) HAM did 2 stints on hards
2) HAM had a 20 second pit stop

[ringo]

I would say these guys made progess since they beat Jenson's mclaren.

Now what stands out like a sore thumb is that they did the revers of china, run the car in the low fuel sweet spot. In china it ran in the high fuel sweet spot.

So the car still has last years problems. It has sweet spots but is not wholy sweet.

If the find a middle ground the car will be average.

Overall the redbull exhaust may be worth a try.

[yener]

Sorry guys,
I just cant stand it anymore too only read on this forum. I am blaming the whole team for the poor results so far.

I just want to say that either the whole team is totaly retarded or the other teams (especially) like mclaren have found a way to timetravel somehow.

McLaren didn't like the car after the Barcelona tests, they literally thrown the car away which they had worked for months.
They created and builded a new one in just 2 weeks. A one that kicks the w02 ass.

Sorry for my language, but i am so frustated

[PlatinumZealot]

Yes I agree. they need to copy the red-bull exhausts right now.

[dren]

The W02 is quicker than several cars with the Red Bull exhaust. I will put money on it that the exhaust layout they are using is better suited to their car than the Red Bull one. The car is quick, the team just has set-up issues. This stems from last year. Once/if these issues are sorted out, the team should be able to maximize future performance updates. I expect the W02 to be on the podium soon.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

We know that rosberg had to run 2 hard tyres during the gp. He ended up around 8 seconds adrift of Hamilton who only did 1 hard stint. So 12 laps on hards and he loses 1 second per lap and finished around 10 seconds off a Hamilton McLaren and overtook a button McLaren. Why do people not see that this is progress.

1) HAM did 2 stints on hards
2) HAM had a 20 second pit stop

I didnt know Hamilton had 2 stints on the hard. My bad on that front.
Hamilton lost around 7 seconds all told from the pitstop, not 20.

[beelsebob]

We know that rosberg had to run 2 hard tyres during the gp. He ended up around 8 seconds adrift of Hamilton who only did 1 hard stint. So 12 laps on hards and he loses 1 second per lap and finished around 10 seconds off a Hamilton McLaren and overtook a button McLaren. Why do people not see that this is progress.

1) HAM did 2 stints on hards
2) HAM had a 20 second pit stop

I didnt know Hamilton had 2 stints on the hard. My bad on that front.
Hamilton lost around 7 seconds all told from the pitstop, not 20.

The pit stop timer recorded him stationary for 20 seconds – given that the average pit stop for a good team is about 3-3.5 seconds, you're talking 16.5-17 seconds extra race time.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

His total time in the Pit lane was 35 seconds.

Rosbergs slowest was 23 flat. So he lost no more than 12 seconds, and we have to also consider that Rosberg was behind a Renault and a Ferrari for 12 laps too in the earlier phase of the race.

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/ ... mmary.html

My point still stands, the Mclaren is only marginally quicker than the Mercedes, and even then only in Lewis hands.
Factor in the wear issues Mercedes had and the oversteer and traction issues Mercedes were suffering particularly out the last corner, and you have to admit they actually performed well.

Personally, I think a short wheel base car will suffer higher tyre wear than a longer wheel base car, all things being equal. But I dont see Mercedes changing their ethos on that either.

[beelsebob]

His total time in the Pit lane was 35 seconds.

Rosbergs slowest was 23 flat. So he lost no more than 12 seconds, and we have to also consider that Rosberg was behind a Renault and a Ferrari for 12 laps too in the earlier phase of the race.

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/ ... mmary.html

My point still stands, the Mclaren is only marginally quicker than the Mercedes, and even then only in Lewis hands.
Factor in the wear issues Mercedes had and the oversteer and traction issues Mercedes were suffering particularly out the last corner, and you have to admit they actually performed well.

Personally, I think a short wheel base car will suffer higher tyre wear than a longer wheel base car, all things being equal. But I dont see Mercedes changing their ethos on that either.

Actually, the number the BBC cited for total pit lane time was 17 seconds, including a 3 second stop. Based on that, that's 14 seconds driving in the pit lane, and puts HAM's stop at 21 seconds... That seems to roughly agree with what the timing systems say – stationary for 20 seconds, rather than 3.

Looks like rosberg had a slow stop.

With this in mind...
Hamilton finished 7.3 seconds ahead of Rosberg
Hamilton lost 17 seconds in a pit stop
Rosberg lost 6 seconds in a pit stop
Hamilton spent the first 20 laps of the race forced to go at Rosberg's pace.

Based on this, over 35 laps the McLaren pulled out 18 seconds. I make the McLaren about half a second faster than the Merc in race trim on this basis.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

So basically Rosberg had the perfect race, and only Lewis suffered?

C'mon. Rosberg had his time loses in race for reasons of tyre wear and people ahead of him on different strategies. Further to that, Rosberg spent more time behind Button than Hamilton as one would expect.

At the end of the day, 12 seconds is what split them over their worst pitstops.
That is sizeable, but not day and night performance differentiator of 0.5 seconds you seem to be concluding on the W02 and MP4-26.

By rights and over 1 lap the Merc is faster, as Qualifying backs up. Only tyre wear is hampering it. Cooler races will definately show the Mercedes potential more than hotter races like Turkey.

[beelsebob]

So basically Rosberg had the perfect race, and only Lewis suffered?

C'mon. Rosberg had his time loses in race for reasons of tyre wear and people ahead of him on different strategies. Further to that, Rosberg spent more time behind Button than Hamilton as one would expect.

At the end of the day, 12 seconds is what split them over their worst pitstops.
That is sizeable, but not day and night performance differentiator of 0.5 seconds you seem to be concluding on the W02 and MP4-26.

By rights and over 1 lap the Merc is faster, as Qualifying backs up. Only tyre wear is hampering it. Cooler races will definately show the Mercedes potential more than hotter races like Turkey.

During the latter 35 laps of the race, both were running in roughly clean air – note that I totally ignore the first 20 laps of the race for both drives because both were in traffic/ruining their tyres. Note that I also give rosberg a 6 second bonus for a botched pit stop.

[axle]

Seems like a race discussion has broken out in a "car" thread.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Seems like a race discussion has broken out in a "car" thread.

We were discussiong relative merits of the cars comparitive to each other.

Would you like a "Mercedes W02 relative performance at Turkey" thread? Looking at your RB7 posts I really dont think you should be calling out Off Topic posts.

On topic: more pictures of the car in Turkey, heaven forbid we need a new thread to post pics of this!