Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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HampusA
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Joined: 16 Feb 2011, 14:49

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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roost89 wrote:@HampusA Indeed no-one was hurt and it's reasonably common, however one cannot use that as a justification for keeping allowing it. Having two cars pass inches from you at 60 miles per hour (pit lane speed) is hardly a matter which can be thrown away. I doubt most people would think it safe to change a wheel at the side of a motorway with cars passing them at 60mph.

That same logic is why it is not safe in F1.

It not being disallowed in the rules also doesn't justify it being done.

There are peoples lives at risk, an impact at that speed with wings, reasonably sharp (in comparison to the front of a road car) would cause some severe injuries. If some was caught. Dare I say, even if someone was clipped, some damage would occur. The only protection they have is a helmet. Overalls and gloves are hardly protection in this case.

I do agree with Tazio on this and to some degree with Andrew.
I think the safe release rule should be tightened up to disallow this action.
Your comparing a highway with normal people in their normal cars where probably around 2% of the passing by drivers are drunk to a controlled enviroment like a pit lane in F1 where the drivers are some of the best in the world?

I get your point, i just feel it´s a problem being blown up WAY more then it really is.

The only guy i feel is at a risk is the guy who holds the air hoses to let the team behind him get a good exit out of his own pitbox.

Grasping for straws in my opinion since there are way more dangerous things than two cars going wide for a second until the guy tucks in behind.
The truth will come out...

Richard
Richard
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Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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HampusA - you didn't see the incident. Hamilton was trundling down the pit lane after his stop, Massa was released into the side of him. Then Massa drove the full length of the pit lane on the wrong side of the white line with his front wheel alongside Hamilton's air box. Massa only pulled behind Hamilton at the end of the garages because the exit lane is too narrow for two cars.

Raymond - I think it was an instinctive reaction, we've seen it before. The car drops to the ground, the foot instinctively presses go while the eye registers that the lollipop is in the way and the brain has to tell the foot to stop.

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HampusA
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Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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Yes i did watch it, i can´t se any problems with it because a number of scenarios has happened before..

The worst one was when Vettel tried to push Hamilton on to the air hoses. That is wrong in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oYjCBooeDI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJca8Z6d4e4

Same deal, Hamilton gets released before Vettel is beside him,
Massa gets released before Hamilton is released.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sgw0W_Y-VQ
The truth will come out...

Richard
Richard
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Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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Last year set down a precedent of a reprimand, but that wasn't applied this year.

ps, I think you got the release order the wrong way around. Massa was released after Hamilton.

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HampusA
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Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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Put Massa was released before Hamilton was beside him, same thing with Vettel and Hamilton.

Both Hamilton and Vettel took the high line knowing that Massa and Hamilton would come up beside them.
The truth will come out...

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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Aside – no amount of penalties will stop this. The lollipop man would have lost his job if he'd not released massa.

Richard
Richard
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Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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We do see lollipop men hold cars back, they don't all lose their jobs do they?

edit to add:

There were 8 penalties last year for unsafe release, plus 3 for dangerous driving in the pit lane (Vettel, Hamilton, Kubica). It seems reprimands are used for danger and penalties only apply if someone hits something, or someone has to take evasive action. http://www.vivaf1.com/penalties_prev.php

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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richard_leeds wrote:We do see lollipop men hold cars back, they don't all lose their jobs do they?

edit to add:

There were 8 penalties last year for unsafe release, plus 3 for dangerous driving in the pit lane (Vettel, Hamilton, Kubica). It seems reprimands are used for danger and penalties only apply if someone hits something, or someone has to take evasive action. http://www.vivaf1.com/penalties_prev.php
We see it when cars are coming in and parking in a garage in front, I don't think I've ever seen it where two cars that are racing each other have pitted together, and one has been held for the other.

vall
vall
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Joined: 04 Nov 2008, 21:31

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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HampusA wrote:Yes i did watch it, i can´t se any problems with it because a number of scenarios has happened before..

The worst one was when Vettel tried to push Hamilton on to the air hoses. That is wrong in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oYjCBooeDI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJca8Z6d4e4

Same deal, Hamilton gets released before Vettel is beside him,
Massa gets released before Hamilton is released.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sgw0W_Y-VQ
For what matters, Hamilton also pushed Massa to the left! See his front left tire at the beginning of the accident and how later down the pine lane he drives Massa left to the extent that Hamilton's tire is almost on the while line just before the exit.

This of course does not mean that Massa should not have slowed down.

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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I think the tyre rules have a flaw which could be erased easily:
Come Q3 yo should be allowed to use a brand new set of option tyres for a banzai qualy run .But only when you have done a run before with a new set of tyres.The bonus set of tyres is not eligible for the race-it has to be returned to pirelli and will have to be used in a FP in the next race.
That ways all would do 2 runs and there was no option to just do 1 attempt or even stay in the pits in Q3 to save tyres for the race.

vall
vall
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Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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sounds good

Richard
Richard
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Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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That would remove the strategic element. At the moment drivers gambling on one run are at risk of being shunted down the grid by another driver beating their time. Equally, drivers gambling that a second run will move them up the grid are at risk of ruining a set of tyres for no gain.

That element of risk adds to the strategic challenge.

alelanza
alelanza
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Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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Tumbarello wrote:That's not what he said in the press conference where he explicitly mentioned the misfortunes of Webber as the reason that he felt the victory was hollow and why he didn't celebrate. Button's move may have contributed to his gloomy demeanor as well, I'm not discounting that as a possibility.
Hmmm... i don't recal him saying that, then again i don't have a great memory, but i wouldn't be surprised if he said something like that as he's strong on being a team player and may have made that up as not to talk bad about his team or team mate before knowing exactly what happened.
However some quick googling reveals two articles that are in line with what i remember:

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Hami ... ,6669.html

In fact, as you can see from his comments he's still trying to be ambiguous about the whole thing, not assigning blame

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/McLa ... ,6939.html

So from the FOM post race edit referrenced in above link you can clearly see they were specific about him not going to get passed, so what he said about 'The communication wasn’t clear for me," was just him trying not to vent things like these in public.
Anyways, which press conference are you referring to?
Alejandro L.

Pedro
Pedro
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Joined: 02 Sep 2009, 15:59

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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Pedro wrote:
vall wrote:where the "star = unused, fresh set" information comes from? Somebody claimed Fred overtook Webber because at the time Webber was on used hard and Fred on new, and later the situation was reversed and Webber overtook Fred. According to your statistics, only the second is correct.

It seems Fred overtook Webber on equal tires.
It comes from Pirelli, here is their original race report with pit stop summary:
http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/news/ ... in-turkey/
The only thing that was different in the stint graphics was Vettel's 3rd stint tyre set. However Pirelli just confirmed to me there is mistake in their press release: Vettel used NEW soft tyres for that stint. So it was right in this forum (thus at http://www.f1news.cz) since the beginning.

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

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you will soon see that people will not give a damn about Qualy anymore as it´s more important to have fresh unused rubber.So RedBull will as soon as they can rely on their kers put on one set of prime tyres and look were they end up...It opens a few moments of fame for Lotus or even HRT but that´s about it as those will not sacrifice their race for grid position and a few laps in the light...
If you want to really have strategy .then allow the bonus set only for 6 races.