Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

[atanatizante]

From a driver`s point of view I think it`s time to take some early conclusion, therefore:

I don't like this year’s F1 too much. Only for one reason: THE TYRES. I like DRS and KERS, they make everything very exciting but my problem is with these tyres that are crap literally. Indeed and for good reason the majority of F1 fans wants to see more action translated in more overtaking maneuvers but what is now it`s a real farce. Some of us (and I hope we are not a few) are not interested in watching which driver is the most gentle with the tyres, because this is not the fundamental idea of F1! Because I think that in F1 it should be all about racing who can put the maximum from the car. We want true racers taking battles wheel to wheel like Senna and Prost did in the 90`s !

Nowadays even if you have the best car out there you can`t defend anymore because that could ruin your tyres and hence lose the race. A single silly mistake like Schumacher did in Q3 or Hamilton in the start of the race you could lose 1-1,5 sec. per lap and the tyre life is for sure at least 30% reduced. And what is outrageous is the fact that event with the hard tyre you couldn`t defend anymore because a very late or even a misjudged brake could end with a destroyed tyre forcing you to go to the pits in order to change them. For example you should look how simple was Hamilton passing Vettel in China. In this case one driver opted not to defend but in other case someone opts to fight and after the duel his lap time and the other drivers involved falls 1 or 2 sec. per lap. You could easily say that is the problems only with soft tyre that last only 6-10 laps, but in fact what`s the difference between soft and hard? 5 or maybe 7 laps? That means that only a small driver error where he pushes little to much (slide, wheel lock,...) ruins the tyre, and he reduces the 10 laps to four laps or something.

Has anyone noticed that nowadays hardly anyone falls out because of driver error, no more wheel locks, driving on the limit? Also if a car has a tiny miss balance that will directly influence the tyres and the driver will lose time.

And if all engineers are trying to make the best possible material they can it can't be that the Pirelli guys are investing millions in to a tyre that lasts as least as possible, that makes no sense. Miles per gallon contest and who can watch their tyres better contests should be left out to the general public.

If people would like more stops, what the heck make 2-3 stops mandatory and the tyres must last at least 15 laps for the soft ones. It`s a easy solution. You can be sure that the stops will still not happen at the same time, there will still be some strategy. And saying that would be artificial it`s a no brainer because all is artificial nowadays. They even could do some changes this year switching the tyres policy with harder one, e.g. for this race (Turkey) they must have been medium and extra hard tyres with mandatory 3 stops, don`t you think? Or maybe they should kept Bridgestone and add DRS + KERS …

In today’s formula even Senna would suck, because he would blow his tyre in 1/2 a lap. And I don't blame Schumacher for not dominating anymore because it's a totally different contest these days. In his 20+ carrier he rarely practiced to drive gently or take care of the tyres, it was always to drive full throttle as fast as you can. But nowadays he can't go full throttle even on one LAP in Q3. So you can't blame him really. This F1 is not for Schumacher and the bad thing is the fact that he was aware of that way back in 2009 when he signed for Merc, unfortunately for us who thought it would come back to go for the 8th WDC. We have to face the facts that he is here just for 2 reasons: 1. To help the team with his knowledge (both winning and car development skills) and put them into a winning position and 2.Just for pure fun, because you have to realize from a racer point of view that he doesn`t have anything to prove anymore and to anybody. And even if he wants that he doesn`t have the same motivation, reflexes and the right F1 for his style anymore.

Good bay F1 for pure racers and welcome F1 for pure gentle drivers aka. “softnessers”. Nowadays is no more formula Senna or Schumacher, is formula Prost.

I wished people would invest this millions in F1 also for analyzing how racing should really be and not making this fundamental decisions ad-hoc.

[beelsebob]

Some of us (and I hope we are not a few) are not interested in watching which driver is the most gentle with the tyres, because this is not the fundamental idea of F1!

Maybe not in the time you've watched F1, but certainly managing your tyres has been a major part of the sport up until very recently.

Because I think that in F1 it should be all about racing who can put the maximum from the car. We want true racers taking battles wheel to wheel like Senna and Prost did in the 90`s !

You mean when they had to manage their tyres carefully. I agree that it's about who can extract the maximum from the car. Managing the engine, gearbox, tyres, etc are all part of that.

Personally I consider the tyres the absolute best addition they could have made to the sport. DRS on the other hand I think lends nothing very much, as demonstrated by various drivers overtaking willy nilly around the track without needing it. KERS I'm very glad to see back, but I'd much rather see it in it's 2013 form – as a constant boost to the engine rather than limited to a few seconds worth of extra power.

[Just_a_fan]

The tyres are now such that the gentle drivers don't actually benefit - see Button's struggle with old tyres in Turkey.

[marcush.]

The tyres are now such that the gentle drivers don't actually benefit - see Button's struggle with old tyres in Turkey.

I don´t get this.Last year the tyres were so good the gentle drivers could not show their hand as abusing them did not hurt them enough and this year they are so weak that even the godfather of tyre management cannot do anything to make the pirellis last...comeon where is the tyre that would allow a driver to show his ability ?

And there are examples of tyre management and tyre abuse this year:Perez got a miracle of laps out of his tyres in the season opener with competitive speed .And Schumacher abused his option tyres in the first corner of Q1 enough to lose a good second on this lap due to this single overdriving .

[HampusA]

Expecting him to win the next race then considering the above and the fact that he took pole and won last year at Spain,

And was 0.9 seconds faster then the closest rival not considering Vettel.

I'll eat my 1:18 FW18 replica if that happens. Trends and history are no guarantee of the future. Vettel is in a different operating zone to Webber right now.

I´m well aware of that dribbler, was just playing around some considering his positions in the race that have been and the fact that he did won last year.

But, i hope you know how to work a camera because i want to see you eat a Williams on youtube if he pulls through

[dribbler]

But, i hope you know how to work a camera because i want to see you eat a Williams on youtube if he pulls through

No problem.If I do have to swallow it, I'll be sure to bend over when it's on its way out so you can see my tiny gurney flap.

[vall]

Turkey 2011 - Lewis was almost level with the Ferrari pit when Massa was released, Lewis reacted when he thought Massa was going to hit him, but otherwise ran straight.

to put things straight, Hamilton did push Massa to the garages! Watch the video again. At the end of the pit lane LH's left tire was over the white line.

[Richard]

James Allen has done very good analysis ... http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/05/w ... -analysis/

[HampusA]

But, i hope you know how to work a camera because i want to see you eat a Williams on youtube if he pulls through

No problem.If I do have to swallow it, I'll be sure to bend over when it's on its way out so you can see my tiny gurney flap.

You will be the next youtube hit with over 10 million views

[Shrieker]

Good analysis, and IMHO it confirms our (well, at least some of us lol) fears. I don't want to see endurance racing (or p!ss competition as to who'll preserve their tyres better one might say) especially in qualifying !

One temporary solution to this might be to offer a new set of tyres for drivers on race day in exchange for the tyres they set their fastest lap on quali. At least we'll see a proper qualifying session...

[archiebald]

From a driver`s point of view I think it`s time to take some early conclusion, therefore:

I don't like this year’s F1 too much. Only for one reason: THE TYRES. I like DRS and KERS, they make everything very exciting but my problem is with these tyres that are crap literally. Indeed and for good reason the majority of F1 fans wants to see more action translated in more overtaking maneuvers but what is now it`s a real farce. Some of us (and I hope we are not a few) are not interested in watching which driver is the most gentle with the tyres, because this is not the fundamental idea of F1! Because I think that in F1 it should be all about racing who can put the maximum from the car. We want true racers taking battles wheel to wheel like Senna and Prost did in the 90`s ! ......

No need to quote the whole post but =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

[archiebald]

Personally I consider the tyres the absolute best addition they could have made to the sport. DRS on the other hand I think lends nothing very much, as demonstrated by various drivers overtaking willy nilly around the track without needing it. KERS I'm very glad to see back, but I'd much rather see it in it's 2013 form – as a constant boost to the engine rather than limited to a few seconds worth of extra power.

DRS did not work well in one race out of four, and the solution for next year's Turkish grand prix will be very easily to implement (shorten the zone). The FIA has always said it will be something they will tweak until they get the right balance. In China you may recall that after the practise sessions, they shortened the zone. Before the race, many people commented that it was going to be too short but as it turned out, they got it spot on.

The tyres on the other hand have screwed up every race so far, the soft goes off too quickly and the hard simply does not work. The far greater than normal tyre debris puts more limitations on racing line which reduces "real" overtaking opportunities.

[Fil]

Those complaining about this years tyres, are already forgetting what it was like under the Bridgestone era, where overtaking could only happen during pitstops (and then they got rid of those! ).
That's what led to the current spec of tyre.

And you need to remember, the overtake that happens due to the difference in tyre performance is not due to that exact moment, but all the laps leading up to it (including practice & qualifying).

F1 is a game of chess lasting over 3 days, not the one corner that you see the overtake.

I personally think it's brilliant. And each race has been fantastic. Not always easy to follow, but when you see a driver get blasted past, like Button did late in the Turkey GP, you know it happened because of his, and his team's mistakes earlier in the race.
He was pitted too early for his 2nd stint, and he failed to get past Massa (thereby not building the gap he needed whilst others were on the Prime).
It had nothing to do with him being unable to taking care of his last set of tyres. By that stage, the vital moves had been played.


If anything, it's DRS that is allowing the tyres to play a bigger role..

[beelsebob]

Those complaining about this years tyres, are already forgetting what it was like under the Bridgestone era, where overtaking could only happen during pitstops (and then they got rid of those! ).
That's what led to the current spec of tyre.

And you need to remember, the overtake that happens due to the difference in tyre performance is not due to that exact moment, but all the laps leading up to it (including practice & qualifying).

F1 is a game of chess lasting over 3 days, not the one corner that you see the overtake.

I personally think it's brilliant. And each race has been fantastic. Not always easy to follow, but when you see a driver get blasted past, like Button did late in the Turkey GP, you know it happened because of his, and his team's mistakes earlier in the race.
He was pitted too early for his 2nd stint, and he failed to get past Massa (thereby not building the gap he needed whilst others were on the Prime).
It had nothing to do with him being unable to taking care of his last set of tyres. By that stage, the vital moves had been played.


If anything, it's DRS that is allowing the tyres to play a bigger role..

=D> =D> =D> I'm glad I'm not the only one loving the new tyres. The fact that it's harder to follow now is actually what I love about it – you can spend all the race (and qually in fact) figuring out interesting things that could be done to get your favourite driver where he needs to be. Not only that, but all the time there's exciting stuff going on on screen distracting you.

[Mr Alcatraz]

The tyres are now such that the gentle drivers don't actually benefit - see Button's struggle with old tyres in Turkey.

I think the ability to conserve the Pirelli’s come down to set-up, (as in Perez' radical set-up that was not optimal for racing did allow him to do a one stopper) and the general properties of the car. Buttons smoothness is not enough to overcome McLarens tendency to be a little harder on it's tyres than a few other teams. JMHO bro