How does Vettel compare to other drivers?

[andrew]

I believe that one driver was favoured over the other however the order of the favouring went against the grain.

Same as Senna was favoured against Prost aswell depsite two championships being determined at the last race?

Before my time so it would be incorrect to comment, though looking back I would have been a Prost fan.

[bhall]

Other than by way of wins and losses or other measurable statistics, just about the only apt comparison between Vettel and other drivers is that some of them are taller and the rest of them are shorter. And the same can be said for every driver.

Everything else is just opinion wrangling.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Oh dear the hamilton fanboys out in force.

My dollar says vettel is faster, but Hamilton is a better racer. What does that mean to anyone? Racer is far more complete right?

Vettel didn't walk into a top drive like Hamilton. He won in torro rosso. Ask Hamilton to do a couple of seasons in an STR and I bet he gives you the finger!
Comparing vettel to Hamilton you are automatically comparing an apple with a pear. How can you compare hamiltons first season to that of vettels?
Are you saying the torro rosso was as good as what Hamilton had? Because that's bollocks.

The only comparitiveway is to compare them when they both had machinery capable of winning. And on that score vettel loses nothing
To hamilton.

[Rob01]

I have never eaten off a silver platter where the food tasted good. Just because Lewis started out with a better team doesn't take away the fact that as a young man he put in endless hours honing his craft. On a team that DEMANDED result. At any point of the experiment/training had he failed or done poorly we would have never seen him in a F1 car. He fully repaid McLaren with a championship. Vettel is a good driver and belongs being mentioned along with the other top drivers, no matter who you rate number one.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

It's not a slur on Hamilton. So please don't take it as one...

He went straight to the top right or wrong. Vettel did not have that luxury.

[DaveKillens]

Isn't this great, us mere mortals measuring and comparing Formula One drivers? And I don't mean that in a cynical way, because it's absolutely fantastic that we fans can watch some truly great drivers making history. Alonso, Hamilton, and Vettel are out there racing, laying down what are possibly great careers, maybe making to the top, where what they have accomplished will be remembered with respect and reverence. Mention names such as Fangio, Clark, or Senna to a Formula One fan, and you get a pause, and a mellowing of tone, because all of a sudden we're talking about great men who did great things.

And right now, I sincerely believe that all three are on track for such greatness. Each is in a different phase of their careers, and since they are all very intelligent, learn at a ferocious rate. Mistakes made two years ago are just that, mistakes, and quickly learned.

I just don't find that comparing what one driver did three years ago versus what another driver did in 2011 is valid. If you recreated those scenarios today, the outcome would be less negative for any driver because they learn, they move on, they improve.

I guess you could devise a valid method of measuring drivers against each other, but it would probably entail using identical cars, allowing each driver about three months unrestricted practice, on a track with sufficient instrumentation so we could capture as much information as possible. Then we could discover who gets on the gas quicker, who exits corners with higher velocity, who generates what slip angles, and so on and so on. And I'm pretty sure that even then, the differences would be microscopic. These guys operate right on the ragged edge of reaction time, hand-eye co-ordination, and mental agility. We're splitting hairs here deciding who's super super super super great, and who's super super super super super great.

It's wonderful being able to witness this right now, and it makes engaging conversation, but we're watching totally different people in totally different cars doing heroic battle when the red lights go out. How they individually battle their foes and circumstance is riveting, each is a wonderful story in it's own. And to me, that makes each and every one a very special winner.

[PlatinumZealot]

It's not a slur on Hamilton. So please don't take it as one...

He went straight to the top right or wrong. Vettel did not have that luxury.

Yeah, he only got plucked out by RedBull when he was ten years old and put into a F1 BMW at the age of Nineteen!

He didn't have to win every category he entered in. He was gonna get that seat no matter what. In Fact he lost to his mate Paul di Resta just before he came to F1. Hamilton Has NEVER been beaten by a team mate in his LIFE. He had to be perfect for that Macca seat. And he deserved it too - beating Alonso as a Rookie. Straight to the Top? JET, HE IS THE TOP.

[PlatinumZealot]

Isn't this great, us mere mortals measuring and comparing Formula One drivers? And I don't mean that in a cynical way, because it's absolutely fantastic that we fans can watch some truly great drivers making history. Alonso, Hamilton, and Vettel are out there racing, laying down what are possibly great careers, maybe making to the top, where what they have accomplished will be remembered with respect and reverence. Mention names such as Fangio, Clark, or Senna to a Formula One fan, and you get a pause, and a mellowing of tone, because all of a sudden we're talking about great men who did great things.

And right now, I sincerely believe that all three are on track for such greatness. Each is in a different phase of their careers, and since they are all very intelligent, learn at a ferocious rate. Mistakes made two years ago are just that, mistakes, and quickly learned.

I just don't find that comparing what one driver did three years ago versus what another driver did in 2011 is valid. If you recreated those scenarios today, the outcome would be less negative for any driver because they learn, they move on, they improve.

I guess you could devise a valid method of measuring drivers against each other, but it would probably entail using identical cars, allowing each driver about three months unrestricted practice, on a track with sufficient instrumentation so we could capture as much information as possible. Then we could discover who gets on the gas quicker, who exits corners with higher velocity, who generates what slip angles, and so on and so on. And I'm pretty sure that even then, the differences would be microscopic. These guys operate right on the ragged edge of reaction time, hand-eye co-ordination, and mental agility. We're splitting hairs here deciding who's super super super super great, and who's super super super super super great.

It's wonderful being able to witness this right now, and it makes engaging conversation, but we're watching totally different people in totally different cars doing heroic battle when the red lights go out. How they individually battle their foes and circumstance is riveting, each is a wonderful story in it's own. And to me, that makes each and every one a very special winner.

I would take out the practice part. No practice. This is not Old man schumi here... Just get in the car - allow them to change brakes, dampers, aero etc and let them race on a reverse grid - the other 21 drivers are included and have the same car.

[HampusA]

I believe that one driver was favoured over the other however the order of the favouring went against the grain.

Same as Senna was favoured against Prost aswell depsite two championships being determined at the last race?

Before my time so it would be incorrect to comment, though looking back I would have been a Prost fan.

....................

[HampusA]

It's not a slur on Hamilton. So please don't take it as one...

He went straight to the top right or wrong. Vettel did not have that luxury.

Why?

What you do before F1 is ultimately what decides where you end up in F1 your first year..

Hamilton has dominated pretty much every series he´s been in. If he did not win the championship in his first year he got it in the next one.

[HampusA]

F1 really is a bad place to compare drivers.

It´s better with spec series where the only thing differentiating is driver skill and setup. GP2 for instance or F3 maybe.

[myurr]

Oh dear the hamilton fanboys out in force.

My dollar says vettel is faster, but Hamilton is a better racer. What does that mean to anyone? Racer is far more complete right?

Vettel didn't walk into a top drive like Hamilton. He won in torro rosso. Ask Hamilton to do a couple of seasons in an STR and I bet he gives you the finger!
Comparing vettel to Hamilton you are automatically comparing an apple with a pear. How can you compare hamiltons first season to that of vettels?
Are you saying the torro rosso was as good as what Hamilton had? Because that's bollocks.

The only comparitiveway is to compare them when they both had machinery capable of winning. And on that score vettel loses nothing
To hamilton.

That year in the wet the Torro Rosso was second only to the McLaren, and Vettel's win was in a race where McLaren and Ferrari badly stuffed up qualifying by being too clever with the weather.

In the race Hamilton made it through from 15th to finish 7th and was the quickest driver through most of the race, and had the weather not held off near the end of the race in defiance of the predictions then Hamilton would have had a shot at winning (McLaren had timed his final pitstop with the expected rain, whereas everyone else had already pitted if memory serves so he would have effectively had a free pitstop).

Vettel is a quick quick driver and on his day can certainly beat anyone from the front. However he has yet to battle through the field to take a strong finish by racing wheel to wheel with the best racers and top cars on the grid. He has made some good overtakes on cars lower down the grid, but he has also botched a fair few overtaking attempts.

In my mind Vettel's major weakness is his seeming inability to win a fair fight when he doesn't start in front.

[rfs]

F1 really is a bad place to compare drivers.

It´s better with spec series where the only thing differentiating is driver skill and setup and budget. GP2 for instance or F3 maybe.

FTFY

[CHT]

(Vettel vs Hamilton)

Podiums 23 / 38
Grand Prix entered 66 / 75
World Championships 1 / 1
Highest race finish 1 (x13) / (1 (x15)
Highest grid position 1 (x19) / 1 (x18)
Date of Birth 03/07/1987 / 07/01/1985


At the moment, it looks like Hamilton is a slightly better driver than Vettel, except Vettel has scored more poles and is the youngest F1 WDC. I reckon by end of the season Vettel will also beat LH on wins and become a 2 time WDC.

[bhall]

Let's see how this stirs the pot...

In his prime, Schumacher* beats them all, even if faced with each of them at their highest level.




* For the record, I don't particularly like the man. Even his fashion sense is loathsome.