Exhaust blown diffusers and FIA restrictions/ban

[beelsebob]

by the way, the cars with a exhaust blown diffuser will still blow it when the driver is on the throttle... or did I miss something?
So, no investments are down the drain.... and no big changes of the hardware will take place imo.

On the contrary – there's major stability issues with only having it work half the time – that's what stopped McLaren's working for so long last season. Not only that, but under breaking into a corner is exactly when you want this to work at its best.

[marekk]

All things considered, I do think this ban is a good thing. Like WhiteBlue said, it's a huge waste of fuel which goes against the whole "green" thing the FIA wants to bring into F1. Also, it is kind of an "active device", like the active suspension was, as there is something managed by electronics that makes the engine behave differently when the throttle is off than what it would normally do purely with driver input.

When you think about it, nothing stops a driver from going into neutral under braking and applying some throttle to blow the diffuser. Complicated, yes. Bad for the gearbox, surely. But then, having something that simulates that on the car without driver input is just another example of an active device, which are against the spirit of the current rules (no traction control, etc...). Very different from the mass damper, which to me is a clever suspension component, not an aerodynamic device, and therefore should not have been banned. But that's another story.

To me, any bit of electronics that does automatically what the driver could/should do himself should be banned under the current rules, since the point is to maximise driver influence. So the ban is a good thing, and it should have happened much sooner.

Now the big question is when were the teams notified. If they were notified in Turkey, then they have had two weeks to get some new engine maps, by no means an impossible task. If they were notified the Monday before the race, then the FIA is on crack. But I doubt that's the case.

We've discussed on the other FEE thread possibility to let driver control exhaust volume under breaking with the throttle - brake pedal acting just as the switch to shift ignition angle. If done this way, should be still legal IMO.

[bill shoe]

These new technical interpretations are interesting, they could be good or bad, but in the big picture-

WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK IT'S REASONABLE FOR THE FIA TO MAKE LARGE RULES RE-INTERPRETATIONS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON IN COMPLETE SECRECY?

Who is this mythical EVERYONE you refer to? I think many of those who care at all are opposed to mid-season changes, including this one.

BUT those of us who care DO NOT COUNT. The powers that be are after the huge moderately interested audience, not the "geeks" and "nerds." The MBAs in suits are desperate for some intrigue, some drama -- for ANYONE NEW to compete at the front.

I'll be more clear. My problem is not that the rules were changed or re-interpreted mid-season. My problem is that the FIA did this in secret. As far as I know the FIA has still not bothered to communicate this change in a clear and public way.

[flyboy2160]

[quote="donskar...The MBAs in suits are desperate for some intrigue, some drama -- for ANYONE NEW to compete at the front.[/quote]

I'll wager a Sam Adams that there's a tree hugging element to this. As I undertand it, the constant rpm off throttle scheme uses more fuel than a normal off throttle scheme. So I can see these retards getting their wussy green knickers in a bunch - while they hypocritically ignore the enormous fuel costs in shuttling all over the globe.

[Richard]

These new technical interpretations are interesting, they could be good or bad, but in the big picture-

WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK IT'S REASONABLE FOR THE FIA TO MAKE LARGE RULES RE-INTERPRETATIONS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON IN COMPLETE SECRECY?

sshhhhhh .... No need to shout.

Apparently the teams were told after Turkey. Complete secrecy would be for the FIA to creep into parc feme and change the settings without telling anyone.

Secondly you don't know what conversations were held behind the scenes.

Thirdly it is not a large intpretation of the rules, they are still allowed to use EBD but the FIA have said "steady on there chaps" when they realised it was spinning out of control.

Fourthly, the FIA have a long track record of rule clarification, it's how the sport works.

[beelsebob]

I'll be more clear. My problem is not that the rules were changed or re-interpreted mid-season. My problem is that the FIA did this in secret. As far as I know the FIA has still not bothered to communicate this change in a clear and public way.

And why should they? It's only the team that need to work on it now, the public only need know when the teams are finally practicing/racing under it on friday onwards.

[scarlet]

By the way, can anyone confirm which teams haven't been running an ebd at all and are guaranteed to gain from this? Just the three new teams or anyone else?

[beelsebob]

By the way, can anyone confirm which teams haven't been running an ebd at all and are guaranteed to gain from this? Just the three new teams or anyone else?

HRT and Virgin are the only two as far as I know. Lotus's system is very recent and probably not honed to perfection yet.

[sink]

So it is not a ban on the EBD. It limits the open throttle to 10% of full throttle. The thread title needs to be "partial limitation on EBD"

Out of interest, what % do they currently run on open throttle?

EBD will continue.

100% in quali trim apparently.

Doesn't 100% sound too much? Without the gases needing to do any work(pushing the piston down), wouldn't this actually increase the gass-flow volume with it being hotter than when at full throttle normally?

[beelsebob]

Doesn't 100% sound too much? Without the gases needing to do any work(pushing the piston down), wouldn't this actually increase the gass-flow volume with it actually being hotter than when at full throttle normally?

Why would it increase gas-flow? It's not like the cylinders absorb magic-smoke to generate motion (that's electronics >.>).

[donskar]

According to Scarbs (whose inputs I respect) the teams most negatively effected will be RBR, McL and Ferrari. So, who opens the thread on who complained? Looks like Mercedes is a hot candidate

[Hangaku]

So EBD is off the cards. This means that the drivers are going to work harder with their feet now (like they used to) if they want a more stable car in corners. Trailing throttle is the order of the day.

Jenson Button tweeted the other day that he'd done more simulator miles this week than real miles in teh whole of pre-season testing, so I wonder if that was eluding to him having to get back into footwork training.

If this is the case, it'll separate the men from the boys - a welcome thing in F1.

[kalinka]

If I understand that "under braking" thing correctly, teams are still allowed to use EBD even in "off-throttle and not braking" situations too...like Turkey T8 when they have to lift the throttle, but not applying brakes at the same time. Though there's a limited number of these situations when they can still use EBD.. Am I guessing wrong here ?

[thestig84]

Jenson Button tweeted the other day that he'd done more simulator miles this week than real miles in teh whole of pre-season testing, so I wonder if that was eluding to him having to get back into footwork training.

He did write this
Jenson Button
Yesterday I spent the day in the simulator driving Barcelona and think I completed more laps than I did in winter testing!!

I think he was saying it more as a point highlighting how few they did in testing more than anything else IMO.

[Martin Keene]

So it is not a ban on the EBD. It limits the open throttle to 10% of full throttle. The thread title needs to be "partial limitation on EBD"

Out of interest, what % do they currently run on open throttle?

EBD will continue.

100% in quali trim apparently.

Doesn't 100% sound too much? Without the gases needing to do any work(pushing the piston down), wouldn't this actually increase the gass-flow volume with it actually being hotter than when at full throttle normally?

Yes, that exhaust gas will be much hotter than normal. That's why they can only run max EBD percentages for Q3 only, they car just cannot take the heat.