Mercedes GP W02

[mep]

So are you suggesting they run a considerably different timing curve? I suppose that would make sense considering how different their cars are not to mention how different their exhausts are. That being the case, dyno numbers on a motor are not going to make a huge amount of difference as both teams are going to be looking for different characteristics in the motor regardless.

So, one makes 805bhp at 18k rpm, but has a more peaky curve in a certain rev range, while the other makes 790bhp at 18k rpm but carries a more broad and useable power curve for one's particular application, but not the other. In the end, they are both looking for different things making dyno figures almost irrelevant. Who knows, maybe Mclaren requests a specific cam timing for their motors which provides a more specific torque curve, and the same could be true for MB or FI.

This rises the question again how McLaren could invent the blown rear wing without Mercedes taking notice of it?
This definitely took away some power of the engine because it reduced airbox cross section and by this oxygen support.

Or how could RedBull develop retarded ignition and Renault had no idea of it?

On the other side was the double diffuser of Brawn immediately leaked to Toyota and Williams.
Seems like they teams just take the engines and fit them in their car without telling the supplier what they do.

[xpensive]

This is an interesting subject in general mep, considering the homologization of the engines, how much cutomized developments are you allowed to do and where is the technical interface between HPE and McLaren drawn? Can the xhausts be customized by HPE to McLarens wishes or is McLaren doing something on their own?

Did RBR develop the retarded ignition themselves, I doubt that very much?

[Rikhart]

I watched the whole race closely, and every single time they showed rosberg chasing schumacher, his DRS was clearly working the entire straight, so I think this is just some excuse by rosberg... He just didnt ever get close enough going into the straight.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Whitmarsh has already said how close McLaren work with Mercedes HPE to try many variants of its MP4-26 exhaust.

There has to be a Firewall in place to allow the customer teams IP to be protected. Because if Mercedes suddenly appeared with an Octopus exhaust, it would be industrial espionage.

The F-duct so far as Iam aware to no airflow from the engine. It had its own channel fed by air sourced from its own duct.

[marcush.]

clearly Mclaren has had their own exhaust last year with oval tubing ..but to say they do not inform their engine supplier of what they do is just reficulous with a engineering support by the enhine supplier very present.every time the engine gets turned a Mercedes guy is present ,or a Renaultz guy .Maybe with thestandardised ECU the manufacturers have not really total control over what the customer teams are doing but I really doubt that any team would even start up the engine without the liasing guy from the supplier being present.

[xpensive]

@marcush
This is what I suspected myself, but I wonder how it works in practice, do you think McLaren designs and builds their own xhaust systems only to have it cleared by HPE before use, or is HPE designing and building to McLaren's spec?

Or a joint effort somehow?

[spadeflush]

"Both drivers had good starts, particularly Michael, and credit to the team for that." -Ross Brawn

Was he referring to a specific set up that helps the car to get a better start? Michael gets off the line better than anyone else in almost every race.

[marcush.]

I´d guess Mclaren is coming up with ideas and discuss with Mercedes Engines about configurations quite at an early stage sure they will not let them know everything but you can bet the shape of the inlet and exhaust piping and geometries is something Mercedes engines will need to be clearly informed about .No wonder that FI can easily use the MGP inlet configuration this year btw..
Then building the hardware is dead sure a customer only thing and I´m pretty sure Mercedes just checks and signs off sensor placements ,cable routing and heat protection issues besides the geometries of the piping itself.
Can Mercedes HPE pass on that information to their race team? not really ,but of course the same people will work on the dyno with these configurations and so you have benchmarking all the time and this in itself will help the works team to stay at least on par with their customers..

[siskue2005]

I watched the whole race closely, and every single time they showed rosberg chasing schumacher, his DRS was clearly working the entire straight, so I think this is just some excuse by rosberg... He just didnt ever get close enough going into the straight.

exactly, even i saw his DRS open most of the time
maybe it didnt work in the final stint or so

and i agree that Nico never was close enough to Michael and all these comments about Nico was faster is full of Sh1T..... every time Nico was able to put a faster lap Michael was able to match it and Michael was saving his tyres most of the time .....he would just pull away when it was time for pitstops...thats why he was able put a 5 to 6 sec gap after every pitstop

[marcush.]

who cares if Nico feels uncomfy when beaten by Schumacher once a year.What is getting at me is they used the wrong strategy.
Looking at the times they did it was not a good idea to throw away the advantage of free choice of tyre to use worn softs and the start.....what a bold decision to make....had they started on new primes and gone for a 7or 8 lap stint and noz an endless last stint on new primes for the finish I´m pretty sure Alonso would have been in reach.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

This proves that Nico was quicker.
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... %20Rosberg


Michael only stayed ahead because he had the benefit of undercut.

[siskue2005]

This proves that Nico was quicker.
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... %20Rosberg


Michael only stayed ahead because he had the benefit of undercut.

it looks like from your link Nico was faster in 38 laps and MS was faster in 26 laps
it was in the final stint where Nico had most faster laps
till then it was 20 to 25 ...it just shows that in the final stint MS was cursing and was just taking it easy to finish the race (like every other driver), but still MS had the fastest average lap
Moreover fastest laps are no good if you are not consistant and have a fastest average laptimes
Average laptimes ..... MS .......................Nico
First stint .......... ..... 1:32.961...............1:33.037
Second stint .......... .. 1:32.640...............1:32.745
Third Stint ............... 1:31.749...............1:31.495
Fourth stint .......... .. 1:31.872...............1:31.886

So what are you trying to say? Nico was faster than Schumy by 0.2 seconds average 3rd stint?
This is all you guys can come up with?
You have digged your own grave, this chart just proves that MS was faster over the entire 66 laps!

[marcush.]

IF Nico was having DRS trouble then it was of no importance anyways as without DRS there was no way to overtake Alonso for him...
To me it seems silly to ask from Michael to move over when Rosberg never ever would or will return that favour.Michael was not ruining his race.

[siskue2005]

IF Nico was having DRS trouble then it was of no importance anyways as without DRS there was no way to overtake Alonso for him...
To me it seems silly to ask from Michael to move over when Rosberg never ever would or will return that favour.Michael was not ruining his race.

Many replys i saw showed Nico's DRS opened up all the time
even the onboard graphics showed it working
i dont know when his DRS was having problems, maybe in the last stint

i think if Schumy and Nico had changed to softs by doing a 4th stop...then they would have caught and passed Alonso....ohter than that there is no chance at all for them to catch Alonso...he was some where around 26 sec ahead at that time

[doink]

I might have been imaging it, but we didn't get a sustained shot on the Mercs today, however during qualification I'm sure I saw some unusual flex in their front wing. If anyone can get hold of some footage of Rosberg or Schumacher's qualification I'd appreciate it, as this most likely was suspension related!