Mercedes GP W02

[marcush.]

I´m very disappointed about the Mercedes boys resorting to a safe and uninspired tyre strategy exactly the same for both.What does an approach like this possibly gain? i would have set one driver on a extremely short first stint on new hards and the second one on a long first stint on used softs.Going with the flow is only a valid startegy when you are a contender for the win ..and clearly they were not.To run in tandem for the whole race was a disappointmentand only short of them clashing at some point.

[dren]

I expect Mercedes to put a good showing in at Monaco. They looked good there last year as well. The car set-up is so much different there.

[yener]

I expect Mercedes to put a good showing in at Monaco. They looked good there last year as well. The car set-up is so much different there.

Well, since they have too less mechanical grip they wont show anything good. Like someone else earlier said; its going to be a nightmare in Monaco.
Monaco has only 1 or 2 high speed corners. The rest is all slow and thats where you need mechanical grip. And the Merc just doesnt have enough. Think the tyres will also suffer hard since they still have an issue with the rear suspension.

[marcush.]

the setup for monaco has not much in common with anything else ..crowned instead of flat track ,increased rideheight ,all the wing you can find is stuck on.as the top speed is not really important...and markedly slower than anywhere else...What to make of DRS there?
Surely the REDBULL approach is givimng you a lot more benefit then looking for added topspeed on straights here....So you set up the car for the quick bits with DRS applied and add some resar downforce in areas where you can make use of it.

[spadeflush]

but wudnt the shorter wheelbase prove to be an advantage at monaco?

[Ferraripilot]

the setup for monaco has not much in common with anything else ..crowned instead of flat track ,increased rideheight ,all the wing you can find is stuck on.as the top speed is not really important...and markedly slower than anywhere else...What to make of DRS there?
Surely the REDBULL approach is givimng you a lot more benefit then looking for added topspeed on straights here....So you set up the car for the quick bits with DRS applied and add some resar downforce in areas where you can make use of it.

A car like W02 will behave completely different to anything they really knew before at Monaco. W02's oversteery nature could do well and Mclaren I think will suffer.

[marcush.]

I really don´t think you go to a race in F1 and really are surprised totally about the behaviour and performance of your car.
It´s not like they have not tested and tried each and everything in terms of setup options and it´s not like Monaco is a big mystery setupwise to the teams.Yes they cannot test there ever but thta´s the name of the game for everyone.Monaco is a track where efficiency is not that important so a drag penalty is not killing you.You need very good traction -which can be achieved by setup or special suspension components (you need monaco specific parts anyways)and you need a lot of low and medium speed downforce..but who cares if your thing is 10kmh slow in the tunnel? show me how you overtake there ...even with DRS you need Mansell sized balls .

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The problem with Monaco is the drain covers, road surfacing and the tight corners where the W02 is traction limited.
Ferraripilto mentioned the overteer nature of the W02 being a bonus. To me this is a fatal flaw.

Coming out of the slower corners the rears lighting up will kill any hopes of the car being easy on its tyres. And tyres are the key tp performance.

Basically the lack of mechanical grip is what I think will hamper Mercedes round Monaco. Unless they have a solution, I remain unconvinced they will fare as they have.
McLaren may understeer, but they have tons of Mechanical grip. A reason theyll do well I feel.

[dren]

I expect Hamilton, Alsonso, and yes Nico to give Webber and Vettel a run for their money in Q3.

[Ferraripilot]

Coming out of the slower corners the rears lighting up will kill any hopes of the car being easy on its tyres. And tyres are the key tp performance.

YES. And Michael is terrible about that as he is always out of slow corners quicker and on the throttle quicker than Nico. Nico really travels smoothly through slower corners.

MB mentioned the rear suspension geometry had been changed slightly, but no one seems to know what they did. One must wonder if they will have a better handle on those changes for Monaco and moving forward considering all the data yielded from the most recent race. If their rear end is worked out a bit better, hopefully W02 won't be drifting around Monaco like a Japanese kid in a Tokyo parking garage.

[marcush.]

The problem with Monaco is the drain covers, road surfacing and the tight corners where the W02 is traction limited.
Ferraripilto mentioned the overteer nature of the W02 being a bonus. To me this is a fatal flaw.

Coming out of the slower corners the rears lighting up will kill any hopes of the car being easy on its tyres. And tyres are the key tp performance.

Basically the lack of mechanical grip is what I think will hamper Mercedes round Monaco. Unless they have a solution, I remain unconvinced they will fare as they have.
McLaren may understeer, but they have tons of Mechanical grip. A reason theyll do well I feel.

Jet -I think they sacrifice mechanical grip at the rearend for something :aero performance.You need a force to counter the rear coming down with speed under the influence of downforce so the cars suspension has to have a progressively stronger rear spring.How RedBull does get the best of both worlds i don´t know but surely Mercedes has not found the answer yet.But as you don´t need the high speed aeroperformance it is entirely possible to run a soft spring at he rear and live with the rear coming down with speed.I don´t see it really that no rear grip issue.
So what would you do to geometry to arrive at a better traction? You could well think about antisquat/antidive geometry .Has someone looked at their wishbone inclination in sideview lately? You can transfer lots of force away from the dampers and springs with wishbone elevation making the suspension less sensitive to longitudinal weight transfer -which could be a reason for bad or good power down behaviour.The RedBull pullrod forward inclination will surely not be ideal in force transmission to the springs,dampers,,inerters and ARB there just has to be an awful lot of flex and friction under bump conditions?

[mep]

When their short wheelbase somewhere gives them an advantage than it should be in Monaco. More weightransfer to the rears during acceleration should improve their grip and acceleration performance. Plus slightly reduced steering angle to go round a corner.
A Kart for a Kart track.

[marcush.]

is 200mm of wheelbase of relevance when you drive a truck through the streets of Monaco?
I ´m still totally blown away by the sheer length of these cars and 3300mm Wheelbase average -it´s just awesome -no current passenger car has something like that you need a Mercedes Sprinter or the like to get a wheelbase like that...so the W02 might be a tad shorter but it still is a Loooooong device.

[adrianjordan]

is 200mm of wheelbase of relevance when you drive a truck through the streets of Monaco?
I ´m still totally blown away by the sheer length of these cars and 3300mm Wheelbase average -it´s just awesome -no current passenger car has something like that you need a Mercedes Sprinter or the like to get a wheelbase like that...so the W02 might be a tad shorter but it still is a Loooooong device.

Yes, just to give you some idea, the new Long Wheelbase Jaguar XJ has a wheelbase of 3,157mm...!!

[SiLo]

I can't remember the thread but the wheelbase issue was discussed severely somewhere on the forum.

I think we came to the conclusion that it would help a bit but nowhere near as much as everyone seems to think.