Renault's nose cone

[Jason]

Somewhat they decided to move back to the older version one just curious....

[Steven]

Very strange indeed.



The last test day Kovalainen came close to the track record set by Jenson Button in a V10 Honda last year. Now Kova is said to have done that with a V8. I don't know if he did that with this nose or the 2006 spec so far.

I'm in the dark here...

[ackzsel]

Those shots are from Catalunya, right? (long straight)

Could it be that a more narrow nose cone supplies more stability on fast straights? And could it be that they needed that because they are testing things other than aero? (engine?)

I also think that a morew narrow nose cone drives more air into the sidepods, but I can't recall that Renault had any cooling problems.

Just the first thing that came to my mind, I'm really interested in what you guys think.

[m3_lover]

The narrow nose I think would give less stability because of the less surface area of the nose (which does not provide a lot of downforce but it does provide some, so with less surface area it would provide less stability).
Mclaren uses the narrow nose, but Renault have been changing back and forth with it this year during testing. The only thing I can think of is that since the cars are doing massive long runs during testing, they switched to a narrow nose to get more then enough air into the sidepods so nothing overheats but that is MO and I not a engineering or engineering just a enthusiant.

[DaveKillens]

Interesting picture Tomba, and it asks more questions than it answers. Just as relevant is the rear wing, a constant chord wing. For the first two races of this season Renault ran a complex wing shape, which changed pitch and chord along it's length. For Australia, and it appears in recent testing, they have gone back to a constant chord wing section. Although they have run the wider nose in all three races so far, it appears Renault are re-examining their recent aero decisions against last year's spec.
In comparing the new wider nose against last year's very sharp and pointed nose, it probably has equal stability, they share the same side cross section area. The wider nose would capture more air and force it up along the top, generating more downforce. But most of that air sliding along the top would probably roll off the sides and generate a votex as it translates from the top to the sides. My opinion is the pointed nose generates a little less downforce, and less drag against the newer side nose. But that downforce is probably negligble, compared to the wings and rest of the car.
There may be a trend appearing where the major teams (Ferrari and Mclaren) have learned that for current aero rules, a narrower nose is better. Both Ferrari and cLaren used to have prominently wide noses, and both teams have gone to much narrower nose cones. maybe Renault had it right last year, and going to the wider nose may have been a slight error, one they are now comparing and testing right now.

[ackzsel]

Well, the reason I think a narrow nose cone supplies more straight line stability is because a narrow nose deflects more air to the left and the right. According to Newton's third law this means that te nose is pushed from both directions to the center. This ultimately means that more force is required to change it's angle.

At least that's what I think.

If this is complete nonsense or something else is far more significant, plz say so, because now I'm really anxious to know why they put on that nose.

[Vasco]

I think it might be renault going defensive for the rest of the season. Maybe they feel as if they have a comfortable enough lead over kimi and mclaren and have decided to go with the narrower nose which probably allows more air to go into the side pods so that they dont loose out on reliability. I dont think they'll loose out on downforce that much. Seeing that they have and advantage over the other teams for now I think they can afford to sacrifice a little downforce and hopefully have a similar season to last years. Just a thought.

[DaveKillens]

Good point Vasco. We seldom see a team going backwards in development, but even at this early stage in the season, Renault are probably seriously using a safer strategy, going with what got them to the dance last year, reliability.
We've all witnessed that the Renaults have the pace, and everyone are trying to catch up. McLaren are desperately trying to close the gap, but are taking more risks. Renault are most likely going with what's safe right now.

[phantomfocus]

Why would Renault who have argubly the most reliable package on the grid introduce, test, then race a nosecone successfully three times only to be concerned with radiator cooling Is it possible that they are now finding that the narrow nose cone fits their situation best? Yes, this is most likely to be the case. However I find it hard to fathom that it's cooling related. It has got to be one of the; aero efficiency, downforce, front end stability type issues.

As far as what ackzsel was talking about with the air on each side of the nose, that makes total sense to me, and is something I've considered before.

Cheers to this website! I truly enjoy reading what you all have to say!

[Jason]

I found another pic of it

[kilcoo316]

It could be a number of things:

- They are unsure of their wind tunnel, and are doing correlations with a known aerodynamic pack, but... would they not use the old car then? [Unless they dont have any available]

- It (the nose) will affect car balance front to rear, its a fair bet that the nose cone does not generate lift or drag proportional to V^2, so it may be there to change the aero balance through the speed range. They may be doing the monaco test, your looking maximum downforce, hence the big ugly rear wing, and the smaller front wing may be an inclusion to this.

- Also, going to monaco = slower speeds = less air through radiators, which may be the need that some have already alluded to in the thread.

- Or, they've made a detail change that we haven't/cannot see (such as endplates or wing profiles), and this nose dovetails with it better.

[DaveKillens]

When you talk of aero stability, think about the classic dart, or arrow. Pointing directly into the airstream, all things are equal and there is no tendency for it to wander off. If it ever gets at an angle to the air, the nose wants to push it sideways. But the fins at the rear push back harder, and it returns to the position if pointing directly into the wind.
So with a racing car, if the nose gets at an angle to the relative wind, it suddenly wants to go off in a direction. There are two ways to deal with this issue. Make the rear part force back harder than the nose can, or reduce how much the nose pushes.
In aircraft, one solution to reducing the side force of the nose is to install chines, like they did in the classic SR-71. You want the air to be able to pass acoss the nose section, left to right, or vice versa, as easily as possible. That way, it doesn't exert as stong a destabilizing force.

[Reca]

Couldn’t it simply be that they didn’t have enough “new” nosecones for testing ? After all if it was just tyre testing they don’t need the ultimate aero development, what they used in winter testing is good enough for a reference. Actually it’s possibly better because in Barcelona this winter they used mainly the old nosecone, trying the new one for, relatively speaking, little time.

[DaveKillens]

I agree Reca, it's a test car, and most likely they are just getting data on tires. As well the first two races of this season were true tests for cooling, and Renault most likely have that issue under control. Imola should not make heat an issue for them. But from what happened at Australia, it seems everyone is concerned about tires, and especially getting heat into them as soon as possible. Alonso said that he really put an effort into getting heat during the safety car periods, and we all witnessed him doing some very violent lefts and rights. It worked for him.. that time. But remember that Montoya spun himself during the warm up lap, something that indicates the drivers are at 100% during that period. I'm not saying that Alonso is lucky, he's darn good. But if you do that violent warm up move over and over, sooner or later you will find yourself looking at the field as you spin. It's resaonable to assume that even Renault are examining and testing the tires, looking to avoid a situation where their driver has to do such a risky move during a safety car period, or on an out lap. tire testing, I'm sure is what's happening.

[Jason]

Close up on the nose cone


Noticed the front wing endplate....weird