Mercedes GP W02

[marcush.]

It´s the old story you can only talk and find excuses for some time but eventually you have to deliver.If they score a p2 or even a win all is fine ,if they not even match last years results it´s the begin of the end..simple as that .They need to be in front everything else just will not work.They are not Toyota.
As for the FP results ..the Ferraris looked very much in qualytrim balls out with Massa really over the top and Alonso just stunning to watch.
From there I could imagine that others were on different fuel loads ,so we know we don´t know.

[Leon]

[dren]

[Leon]

[yener]

Is it possible that MS gear ratio is different to Nico's? Cause in the Ferrari period MS wasn't that good in starts and now he is. Maybe the car have a short gear ratio in the first couple gears and thats why MS has wheelspin coming out of a corner.

Maybe they should work on that?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Im going ot suggest that Schumacher was not fast enough, or didnt find a setup for the W02 that suits him.

In general I would say he is finding the W02 more difficult to set up than Rosberg.

[roadwarrior]

Is it possible that MS gear ratio is different to Nico's? Cause in the Ferrari period MS wasn't that good in starts and now he is. Maybe the car have a short gear ratio in the first couple gears and thats why MS has wheelspin coming out of a corner.

Maybe they should work on that?

Yeah, it's strange that he manages the wheel spin really well at the starts (he must do otherwise his starts wouldn't be that good) but struggles with it in corners. Unless of course Nico also has a lot of wheel spin out of slow corners. I can't remember listen to Nico's on board through slow corners so can't say.

As for JET's comment about him not being able to set the car up to his liking, I agree with that. But I wonder how much of that is Michael, how much is the car and how much is his engineers. I'm still not convinced that the engineers on his side of the garage are that great. I'm not implying that Nico's are better but in comparison to what MSC had a Ferrari they probably aren't as good.

From what I have read a shorter wheelbase should give more weight shift under acceleration which should give more grip on the rear wheels coming out of slow corners. So what is the problem with Merc? Is it the suspension geometry that is wrong? Or does downforce still play a large part even in the slower corners?

[PlatinumZealot]

New cooling duct? hmm any pics?

Look a few pages back?

Yes?

[marcush.]

With low CoG the weight transfer should be greatly reduced and a low percentage wheelbase change will also not really have an impact on tractive performance ..there are other factors influencing traction much more .these little details may have a small contribution but nothing significant enough to turn the table in your favour.
As for Michael I was sure that he did not gel too good with Shovlin last year and now Rosberg has Ross his old mate from Williams back as his personal Race engineer plus Jock Clear who is really a legend (just how long does he do that ?two decades?)And still they got their fuel calc wrong ....
I feel there is potential with Schumacher in terms of setting up the car as he seems to have trouble more than Nico.
Maybe it´s just he puts in too much of his experience and nobody dares to stop him .It looks like he has different roads he is following in setup but what can you really see from that far away.What I do not believe is Nico being simply quicker.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Thing is Marcush, its easy looking from the outside in. We dont know what Mercedes are working with at the end of the day.

This is Tyrrel/BAR/Honda after all. Mercedes input, and money doesnt suddenly take a strangle hold. Mercedes may have thought that, but I think they were sold as where the rest of the world on Brawn GPs 2009 performances. We now know it was because Honda spent 18 months refining the BGP001 with a DDD.

Imagine for a moment Red bull are taken over by VW, they lose around 40% of their workforce including Newey and have their budget slashed to 50%.
On top of that, their advantageous tech could be easily replicated(flexing wings, which arent easily copied...like DDD). Do you expect "VW" to maintain performance?

I think Mercedes are getting "bangs for buck" value from the team and in particular the W02. But working to a budget has its limits as I'm sure any engineer would know.
Some solutions may just be sitting idly by as their arent enough people to research it.

What relation this has to the Merc W02 is fairly straightforward. I want to see it win, and the RRA isnt being followed by some teams as it should be(cough Red Bull).
Thats not to say they are cheating, just that the same old crap keeps rearing its ugly head in F1...the laws arent clear enough.

Soon this sport will be won in court rooms.....

[atanatizante]

Some questions:
1. Most of the major teams (Ferrari, McLaren, M.B.) didn`t translate the CAD-CAM and wind tunnel results into accurate updates when they test them in FP. Only RB does. Why?
2. On other forum there`s a rumor that RB has a fluid system in order to switch the weight distribution in qualifying and race. This system was brought from the sidecar racing. Is this allowed?
3. How much downforce (in %) have been lost from last year`s DD to this year single diffuser and who do you think they regained it?
4. MB`s EBD is not so efficient because there are lots of hot gases (hence energy) wasted when blowing on top of the diffuser. This system has one reason: to create a low pressure in order to create down force. But it`s paramount to do that where is the maximum diffuser action and that is on the outer edge of the diffuser! Everybody figured out except them (Renault btw has another philosophy without followers)! Why isn`t a single team taking the same route? They just copied RB system from last year but essential this was working only in conjunction with a DD. The same thing they did with the nosecone. Unfortunately they don`t have great results because simply what was working on RB last year doesn`t have to work on this year as well, otherwise they would have stick with the same solutions on RB7, isn`t it?

[yener]

n other forum there`s a rumor that RB has a fluid system in order to switch the weight distribution in qualifying and race. This system was brought from the sidecar racing. Is this allowed?

Seriously, i have been thinking about something like that the whole week. Maybe they use a system like that. It could be very easy and they wouldnt be able to proof they are cheating since the car would go trough all tests.

For example; The minimum car weight must be 600KG (includes the driver) What if you have a liquid tank with 50kg. Including that weight and driver the cr weights 600kg.
While racing you could get rid of that flued and run many kilo's lighter than the other teams. At the last pitstop, they could put the liqued back or give you more fuel so you car will stay at the minimum weight.

Sorry my english is not so good, but i hope you understand.

Would it be legal? I think it would, because the flexi wings of redbull are clearly bending but they dont move at the tests.
And if they would weight the car it would weight 600kg before and after the race.

[Byronrhys]

n other forum there`s a rumor that RB has a fluid system in order to switch the weight distribution in qualifying and race. This system was brought from the sidecar racing. Is this allowed?

Seriously, i have been thinking about something like that the whole week. Maybe they use a system like that. It could be very easy and they wouldnt be able to proof they are cheating since the car would go trough all tests.

For example; The minimum car weight must be 600KG (includes the driver) What if you have a liquid tank with 50kg. Including that weight and driver the cr weights 600kg.
While racing you could get rid of that flued and run many kilo's lighter than the other teams. At the last pitstop, they could put the liqued back or give you more fuel so you car will stay at the minimum weight.

Sorry this doesn't make much sense, to me at least, refueling is banned, and if you mean running more fuel at the start... it would just nullify the point you made.

Sorry my english is not so good, but i hope you understand.

Would it be legal? I think it would, because the flexi wings of redbull are clearly bending but they dont move at the tests.
And if they would weight the car it would weight 600kg before and after the race.

[Robbobnob]

@atanatizante a few answers:
1. as CFD-FEA is only as accurate as your models representation of real world physics, Red Bull might have a more accurate modelling software / are applying a chaotic system and doing more analysis to understand real world behavior.
2. such a system would have to be operated during the first pit stop by regulations if it is infact legal.

[marcush.]

shifting weight with a fluid system is not legal .Fuel storage is allowed only in a single chamber behind the driver ,you could try and build some kind of a divider plate and have actuated active trapdoors influencing the area where fuel accumulates(with 4 gs of force sideways and under braking the fuel can be channelled whereever you wantr quite quickly without the need of a pump)But the effect is really not that big you trade in weight distribution for CoG height I doubt there is much to find with that considering the effort you have to put in.
Then you got the water and oil system ,water lines are free and you could build an expansion tank into the front of the tub to move weight forward on the fly...having a second volume somewhere else and trim the car to comply with the rules in the paddock....I cannot see a rule preventing you from doing weird things with your water system but as water has a low density you need volume to make an impact...so 10litres of water for 10kg of weight needs of course 20litres of volume in the car if you want to use it for car weight distribution trim..thats a lot and maybe more than is needed for KERS ....any idea where to place such volumes?