Red Bull RB7 Renault

[Robbobnob]

Vettel was able to get on the throttle much quicker exiting the chicane and had superior grip to Hamilton in the last corner which is why Hamilton said post match that the Red Bull had superior down force in the fast corners

[hardingfv32]

All Hamilton knows for sure is that he was slower out of the last corner. Driver statements have no value in our threads. We have no idea how much they are in the team information loop or if they are allowed to say anything accurate if they are. We can only rely on their actions during on track activities.

We are still left with why the RB advantage through the last corner. It seemed very consistent, like McLaren could not come up with some form of KERS usage to improve the situation. It just seemed odd that this cornering advantage only showed through the last section.

Brian

[Robbobnob]

basic physics, the Red Bull has more down force therefore can apply the throttle sooner than a car with less (e.g. Hamilton Mclaren), hence no matter if he had applied the KERS or not, Hamilton would have just got wheel spin if he tried using KERS at that stage in the final corner.

Obviously Hamilton was aware of that fact, hence why he made the statement, just because they are drivers doesn't mean their statements can be overlooked, especially when his on track activities back up his statement.

Hamilton would drop back at every fast corner (3, 9 and 14) but gain again on the straight immediately following

[Princey]

Yeah you could hear Hamilton say "so much down force" or something similar during the pre podium bit where the watches are put on etc.. he must have a good idea and probably in the best seat in order to view it first hand through the fast corners. I always crank up the tv for that point after the race as I find it interesting to get a drivers thoughts and reactions before they have been briefed on what to say etc.

[HampusA]

Vettel could use KERS through the last turn, Hamilton could barely go full throttle through the turn when the tires started to go off.

It´s just a very sick car that RBR, perfect aerodynamics, extremely stable even with tires on low grip where the car stays balanced and thus a hell of alot easier to handle etc.

I´m really excited to see RB8 later, probably just an evolution of RB7 like this was to RB6 etc.

[Robbobnob]

it makes me wonder, what wonder technology do the have under that bodyshell, there must be something??

[HampusA]

I think it´s just superior aero that makes the RBR stick out.
I just wondered how things would have looked if Mercedes would have sold RBR their engines..
Wasn´t it Schumacher who said something about Mercedes really needs to think about who they are selling their engines to and then later Mercedes said they won´t sell them?

[siskue2005]

I think it´s just superior aero that makes the RBR stick out.
I just wondered how things would have looked if Mercedes would have sold RBR their engines..
Wasn´t it Schumacher who said something about Mercedes really needs to think about who they are selling their engines to and then later Mercedes said they won´t sell them?

yes the evil Schumacher doing all the cheatings behind the scene

[hardingfv32]

Superior grip, greater downforce, etc....... you are not answering the difficult question:

Why did the better cornering performance only show in the last group of turns? Why did RB not have a bigger lead going into the last section? Hell, why was McLaren even in contention at this point in the race. Assume equal driving performances.

Stop spouting the party line and think a little.

Brian

[Just_a_fan]

Superior grip, greater downforce, etc....... you are not answering the difficult question:

Why did the better cornering performance only show in the last group of turns? Why did RB not have a bigger lead going into the last section? Hell, why was McLaren even in contention at this point in the race. Assume equal driving performances.

Stop spouting the party line and think a little.

Brian

Why assume that? Driving performances are not equal.

The simple, truthful answer is that the RB7 has the best downforce on the grid. That allows higher apex speeds and earlier application of the throttle. Result is that the car is quicker through and out of a corner.

You seem to want someone to come out with an answer that doesn't match the facts. Why?

[HampusA]

yes the evil Schumacher doing all the cheatings behind the scene

Well, Mercedes had plans to sell engines to RBR, RBR wanted them obviously.
Schumacher then made a comment that Mercedes should really think twice before they sell their engines to anyone.
Then a while later Mercedes said that they won´t sell RBR their engines.
I know Horner was bummed out about it aswell.

[HampusA]

Superior grip, greater downforce, etc....... you are not answering the difficult question:

Why did the better cornering performance only show in the last group of turns? Why did RB not have a bigger lead going into the last section? Hell, why was McLaren even in contention at this point in the race. Assume equal driving performances.

Stop spouting the party line and think a little.

Brian

The only real place where Hamilton gained any time was in the braking department.
He had KERS all the time, Vettel did not. So Vettel used his at the last turn every single time.

I´m pretty sure the RBR had the highest exit speed out of the fastest corners of the track.
Hamilton had alot of problems getting the power down on the ground in the last turn. That alone will shoot Vettel a few meters ahead.

Btw, you are telling me to think when you say stuff like "Assume equal driving performances"

How about you think a little? They are both quick but in very different ways. Totally different actually.

[hardingfv32]

"Assume equal driving performances" is valid attempt to eliminate driver talent from the discussion. We have no way to distinguish between driver and car performance, so I am doing it with this assumption. I wish to focus on the performance of the two cars. If you don't, feel free ramble on to no conclusion.

"Result is that the car is quicker through and out of a corner."
"Hamilton had a lot of problems getting the power down on the ground in the last turn."

Can we assume McLaren did not have any cornering problems the rest of the lap if they were always on the BR's tail starting the last turn complex? McLaren surely could have matched RB's KERS usage in the last turn complex. They had many laps to figure out what to do. I would also assume they would have done race simulations with this situation in mind... The best way to defend and the best way to pass through this particular turn complex on to the straight.

Brian

[PlatinumZealot]

Well Brain. The RedBull could take the last turn with the DRS open. That is the scientific evidence that the RedBull has enough downforce to take the turn even when the upper element of the rear wing is stalled. Doesn't get any clearer to me; the car has monstrous downforce.

[hardingfv32]

"The RedBull could take the last turn with the DRS open." We are certain that was not the case during the race per the rules.

Ok, then why was McLaren on his RB's tail everywhere but on to the front straight during the closing laps. Where was the "monstrous downforce" the rest of the lap?

Brian