Mercedes GP W02

[Morteza]

As I said ,you can only come up with excuses for so long.Yesterday the talk was :Wait till tomorrow we look a lot better in the race than in Qualy and it was the other way around .
Nico admitting to letting the team down .Schumachers car going in anti stall mode on the grid for no apparent reason and robbing him of a good start ,a 10 second loss in the first pitstop ,graining rear tyres and finally a airbox internal event leading to a loss of electricity in the airbox..eg a airbox fire with resulting damage to the wiring loom of the injectors..No wonder it stopped so suddenly.
When things go wrong they really go wrong even though Schumacher was positive about his pace after the pitstop and said this was encouraging and he was sorry for rosberg he had to take the opportunity as he was so much quicker than him.

The car is not the problem methinks ,they lack at extracting performance and to me this is not a driver problem but a pitwall engineering thing

They lack knowledge?

[Pierce89]

what did you expect? after all it's still the same old honda crew that screwed up since BAR times.

I think it's not a determining factor, as you can see them winning a championship. In this way, we can ask questions, how the hell a "party team" can beat teams like Ferrari and McLaren.

They won a championship because something that was always illegal beofre,suddenly became legal even though the wording on holes in the floor never changed. It's called: the FIA wants the little guys to win even if it requires cheating.

[andrew]

It was a gift from MrM.

[Adamski]

what did you expect? after all it's still the same old honda crew that screwed up since BAR times.

I think it's not a determining factor, as you can see them winning a championship. In this way, we can ask questions, how the hell a "party team" can beat teams like Ferrari and McLaren.

They won a championship because something that was always illegal beofre,suddenly became legal even though the wording on holes in the floor never changed. It's called: the FIA wants the little guys to win even if it requires cheating.

You are absolutely right, if we look only the technical advantages. But we have to consider, that it was not a black or white situation. Everybody started from zero in 2009 because of the new rulebook, so everybody has the chance, to develop such system, and Brawn GP was not the only one, who did that magic device. They getting the most out of it, and they can win in that situation.

[Dragonfly]

The spirit of Honda is haunting the team Mercedes. They must do something, even if it is exorcism

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

To get back to "technical" part...

If you compare McLaren, Ferrari, RedBull and Mercedes... You can see that the Ferrari and the Mercedes are both quite "tailhappy" while the McLaren and espcially the RedBull look quite easy to drive.

The next thing we could notice was that Vettels RedBull was really good out of the corners - even when his tires were old.

Merc (especially Michael) had problems whith their rear. Nicos car looked (a little bit) better balanced. Thats why they had graining at their rear on option tires. Mercedes and Ferrari both struggle in generating downforce at the rear. And it looks like Mercedes miscalculated their suspension geometry (again).

-> Bad mechanical grip + lousy aero = MERC

Because Renault engine have a big torque in low rev. It's why Renault and Red Bull have a great traction out of corner.

[Ferraripilot]

To get back to "technical" part...

If you compare McLaren, Ferrari, RedBull and Mercedes... You can see that the Ferrari and the Mercedes are both quite "tailhappy" while the McLaren and espcially the RedBull look quite easy to drive.

The next thing we could notice was that Vettels RedBull was really good out of the corners - even when his tires were old.

Merc (especially Michael) had problems whith their rear. Nicos car looked (a little bit) better balanced. Thats why they had graining at their rear on option tires. Mercedes and Ferrari both struggle in generating downforce at the rear. And it looks like Mercedes miscalculated their suspension geometry (again).

-> Bad mechanical grip + lousy aero = MERC

Because Renault engine have a big torque in low rev. It's why Renault and Red Bull have a great traction out of corner.

I would think more torque at the low end of the rpm range would make the back end more tailhappy, especially out of slow corners.

[Pierce89]

To get back to "technical" part...

If you compare McLaren, Ferrari, RedBull and Mercedes... You can see that the Ferrari and the Mercedes are both quite "tailhappy" while the McLaren and espcially the RedBull look quite easy to drive.

The next thing we could notice was that Vettels RedBull was really good out of the corners - even when his tires were old.

Merc (especially Michael) had problems whith their rear. Nicos car looked (a little bit) better balanced. Thats why they had graining at their rear on option tires. Mercedes and Ferrari both struggle in generating downforce at the rear. And it looks like Mercedes miscalculated their suspension geometry (again).
-> Bad mechanical grip + lousy aero = MERC

Because Renault engine have a big torque in low rev. It's why Renault and Red Bull have a great traction out of corner.

I would think more torque at the low end of the rpm range would make the back end more tailhappy, especially out of slow corners.

Unless the RB7's superior downforce allows them to exit a gear higher. Then that fat torque curve could be quite a nicety.

[Pierce89]

The spirit of Honda is haunting the team Mercedes. They must do something, even if it is exorcism

you've hit the nail on the head. They need a Catholic Priest, A Voodoo priestess, and a practitioner of Santa Ria. Maybe that team could exorcise the Honda demons, but those demons may just be home to stay. Even Ross Brawn is going down with this sinking ship.(or maybe he's lost his mojo and he's nothing but a lead weight.)

[Pierce89]

As I said ,you can only come up with excuses for so long.Yesterday the talk was :Wait till tomorrow we look a lot better in the race than in Qualy and it was the other way around .
Nico admitting to letting the team down .Schumachers car going in anti stall mode on the grid for no apparent reason and robbing him of a good start ,a 10 second loss in the first pitstop ,graining rear tyres and finally a airbox internal event leading to a loss of electricity in the airbox..eg a airbox fire with resulting damage to the wiring loom of the injectors..No wonder it stopped so suddenly.
When things go wrong they really go wrong even though Schumacher was positive about his pace after the pitstop and said this was encouraging and he was sorry for rosberg he had to take the opportunity as he was so much quicker than him.

The car is not the problem methinks ,they lack at extracting performance and to me this is not a driver problem but a pitwall engineering thing

Surely you, of all people, haven't lost the faith.

[Fil]

Nico does these after each race, it's a pretty cool insight.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtuyheMs6YU[/youtube]

[bot6]

Yes, it's quite nice to have some feedback like that from the drivers. Also a lot of humility from Nico, admitting he made mistakes and it wasn't his best weekend. I can't remember the last time I heard Alonso or Vettel say "I didn't do a great job".

Back on the car stuff, guys let's not forget that Monaco is a very specific circuit, and that the cooling issues here are different from other tracks. A lot of on/off throttle and low speeds, so less air flow in the sidepods. Obviously, they also made a mistake in the design of the new engine cover if the airbox caught fire on Michael's car, and that will probably be sorted for the next race.

As to the lack of performance and updates, budget wise Mercedes is where they should be. Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren have much more money than MGP, much more resources, more infrastructure. The suits at Stuttgart think that they can compete at the front with half the money of the other teams, but there is no way that is happening. What MGP needs is not better engineers or better drivers. It's more people and more cash. Plain and simple.

They are not having a horrible season. They are where they should be money wise and resource wise. Maybe not "badge" wise. But sticking a three pointed star on a car has never made it go any faster.

[marcush.]

Big teams ,small teams you have to live with what you have got.Apart from their simulator they have never ever reported publicly to lack in money or recources.
They clearly do not understand the tyres as well as others or do we believe in the others to have more luck?
In Turkey the car was all of a sudden quick enough to fight for the win only to be not prepared -filled up !-to make it to the end...so much for confidence in your work.Now they seem like last year announcing steps and improvements only to be unable to make it into the points..and losing the car in the better position due to a technical issue.
Bring the car home has top priority you can live with an accident,but not with little things stopping your car.
But the real issue is them having announcing things and quite the opposite happening .It looks like they are rolling the dice to decide their setups and hope for a lucky hit?

[samstre]

if i keep thinking, another thing comes to my mind.
it was not only MGP who struggled. Lotus Renault comes to my mind. everyone expected them to be fast at monaco (due to the good "driveability" of their car and their engine). they didn't look good either.

does anyone have some "insights" on this? did they "cook" their tires or did they struggle to get temps into it? (i expect them to be to hard on them)

anyway... i'm still not sure what's MGPs biggest problem. it's pretty obvious that their mechanical grip is not the best. monaco is not an "aero" track. so one could think "hey MGP did quite well on aero tracks, so their aero is not as bad as they say"... (i'm not 100% sure but...) if you look at their barca performance, they seemed to struggle in the fast corners (aero). but they had quite a reasonable speed. i personaly think it's because of their engine. but as we all know, they got problems with their cooling. so i expect them (especially on such a "slow" track like monaco) to "tune the engine down", in order to prevent overheating. <- that could be one reason why they performed sooooo bad at monaco. the track emphasised their weak parts and didn't allow them to take advantage of their good engine.

any thoughts? whats the first thing they could/shoud improve? (and don't come up with "screw them..." let's stay "technical" - cause this is not the place for fanboywars)

[marcush.]

Schumacher got his front wing redesigned even before the first corner ,and had to compensate for this ..which ruined his rears early.
They had some speed over a lap and expressed confidence for good race pace which did not happen for Rosberg at least.
I think Scumacher would have had still the chance to just to make it into the points.

In FP2 Vettel was suddenly down the order and lost out only in Sector 1 and in trap speeds .So we can see where it will hurt when you turn down your engine a few notches.

Or was it simply Mercedes having too much fear of HRT lodging a protest and switching off the Exhaust blowing? Well it could explain their balance shifta and it would be something you just cannot take into public....who would understand you qualify on something that is not allowed?