Ringo F1 design

[wesley123]

do not think there is any real effect on F1 cars, they just lack the surface area. Although they make use of this with small fins in fornt of the air intake, there isnt any real area for it. If I am correct these wings work by creating a vortex on the upperside of the wing, generating lift. This, would be very benificial in cooling, before the new formula McLaren and ferrari and such placed flaps in front of the rad intake, generating a vortex into the rad. I thought this had to do with boundary layer drag and such things.

[Tozza Mazza]

Delta wings are the ones shaped like a triangle. In 2007 i think Ferrari had a Sweep wing by the cockpit, as opposed to delta wings. I think delta wings were used on the Ferrari 312T front wings in the mid-late 70's. A delta wing has a good sweep angle, means the leading edge is not effect by whatever it is effected by, and therefore means that under wing speed is much greater than speed over the wing. It also means a vortex energises airflow, giving a delta wing a very high stall angle.

They seem like the would work as a main plane on a rear wing.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm trying to learn aerodynamics, it's a complicated beast to tame, and I am often wrong at the moment. Hopefully next year though, I'll be going to University to study aeronautical engineering with a view to specialising in aerodynamics.

[wesley123]

I was not talking about those ears, there was a small flap almost vertical in front of the radiator intake. Renault used a bump there and McLaren a horizontal one. More recently Mercedes utilised a similair solution

[Tozza Mazza]

Pic?

[marcush.]

can someone explain why no current F1 design is separating the radiator inlets from the tub to get rid of the boundary layer in that area? Mercedes even has placed a strip in front of the inlet to have a better flow .why not just lift the sidepod inlet completely off the tub then? this is not really a new problem ,is it?

[ringo]

The boundary layer may not be a big problem i think.
If you lift the inlet off the tub by about a couple mm or cm, it may be giving up some useful area.

If the boundary layer transitions to turbulence then it may not be necessary to avoid it.

The other thing about separating the inlet from the tub is that it creates another edge. The edges on inlets are bad for the flow. Having the tub side instead of an edge saves on those edge effects.
I think some flow separation can occur at those edges. Though there could be more to this question.

[flyboy2160]

i don't know that the extended overhanging upper "hoods" on those 2 fighters have any applicability to an f1 car. the fighter intake hoods are to ensure that there is no loss of airflow to the intake when the aircraft increases its angle of attack (aoa) from normal level flight to higher aoa during maneuvering.

(the sizing of such inlets is critical for maximizing the efficiency of the engine and for avoiding "spill drag," which occurs when there is more air going into the inlet than the engine can handle. the excess air backs up and spills out, causing drag on the outside of the intake cowling. i suspect this is also true with an f1 car radiator intake, but have no experience with car intakes.)

since an f1 car runs essentially at the same aoa all the time, i don't see how the hood will help.

and keep your pants on romeo until you have the whole flow field. it looks like your intake would about be aligned with the local flow field from the curved forebody, but i suspect that field will change after the front wings, barge boards, etc. are added. the most efficient cooling intake will have its capture throat normal to that flow.

[ringo]

Same can be applied to the F1 car.

The hood opening is specifically for the compressor or fan on the air craft. Yes the AoA of the air craft is the main concern with it. I was actually doing some reading on it recently.

I didn't say it will have the same exact effect, i just said it was inspired by it.

and keep your pants on romeo until you have the whole flow field. it looks like your intake would about be aligned with the local flow field from the curved forebody, but i suspect that field will change after the front wings, barge boards, etc. are added. the most efficient cooling intake will have its capture throat normal to that flow.

I don't follow you with the pants thing?
When you say curved fore body, explain what you mean.

It's not the first car i made a car or part of an F1 car, so from earlier experience i know what to expect from the wings and the wheels.
This inlet design has benefits. It wasn't tested on this specific model, it was done on model with 3 inlet configurations. And a comparison was made between the 3.
There is more to say on the inlets, but that's until the barge board and the turning vanes are made.

There are some secrets right in front of you on the tub that i wont say, but i think if a redbull designer is reading this it will stand out at them.
There are a few things i realized from the car, and it's very mathematical.
Newey uses a certain geometric philosophy. Kinda like the golden ratio, but it's not a ratio.

[horse]

Golden spirals?

[ringo]

When it's finished.

Here's a hint: No other team seems to realize it.

Sounds crazy but from what the 2011 grid looks like, they don't use it.

It's not related to the ratio, but there is that kind of significance and blind obsession with this certain aspect of the rb cars.




heh heh ... I'm over hyping the thread a little, but it's true

[flyboy2160]

r man,

it looks like the normal to your intake is about lined up with the (i'm going to use an airfoil term here) "camber line" that averages the curvature of the upper part of the body in front of the cockpit and the curvature of the body below the drivers legs. i'm looking forward to seeing the cfd! (i just got a new cfd program at home, but haven't fired it up yet.)

dude, you have to get more up with modern slang! "easy, romeo" is used to tell some one to not be so excited about something. i modified it into a more extreme version by advising romeo to keep his pants on..... you'll have to figure out excited about what.

you have ruined my respect for newey with those drafting board pics. i can't believe he does it that way when modern cad is so easy. please, if anybody from dassault sees that, send him a seat of catia or solidworks for free.

[marcush.]

r man,

it looks like the normal to your intake is about lined up with the (i'm going to use an airfoil term here) "camber line" that averages the curvature of the upper part of the body in front of the cockpit and the curvature of the body below the drivers legs. i'm looking forward to seeing the cfd! (i just got a new cfd program at home, but haven't fired it up yet.)

dude, you have to get more up with modern slang! "easy, romeo" is used to tell some one to not be so excited about something. i modified it into a more extreme version by advising romeo to keep his pants on..... you'll have to figure out excited about what.

you have ruined my respect for newey with those drafting board pics. i can't believe he does it that way when modern cad is so easy. please, if anybody from dassault sees that, send him a seat of catia or solidworks for free.

He is not the only one who thinks along those lines ,rest assured.It has a method or do you think they don´t have the money to afford a top setup Catia or whatever you might fancy for their top dog?
maybe he´s just to old to be able to learn it or what....boy oh boy ..I´ll leave it at that .Just this to finish it You don´t have to have a clue about cAD to bethe very best designing a F1 car,he is the living proof of this .And even being the best CAD boffin does never ever compensate .It´s like having the best CFD and Windtunnel but having no idea what to invent ...

[Tozza Mazza]

Here's a hint: No other team seems to realize it.

Sounds crazy but from what the 2011 grid looks like, they don't use it.

It's not related to the ratio, but there is that kind of significance and blind obsession with this certain aspect of the rb cars.

Go on Ringo, spill the beans. You know you want to

[hardingfv32]

What type of drawing is Newey working on?

What part of the car? A body surface contour?

Brian

[Tozza Mazza]

What type of drawing is Newey working on?

What part of the car? A body surface contour?

Brian

Looks like a rear view of the engine cover.