Red Bull RB7 Renault

[speedsense]

It would be impossible to detect? You mean two MGU units would not seem odd when everyone is using one.

Brian

If the MGU (the one that is allowed) is creating enough drag to cause a brake bias adjustment as it effects the rear of the car.... (4 times in Spain, Vettel was asked to adjust brake bias, due to KERS).. If the drag is great enough that you have to adjust bias, it is essentially causing braking at the rear of the car, adding to the braking power of the car, resulting in a bias change. Seems to occur when the KERS isn't functioning properly or so the radio transmission suggests.
Now if you caused the same interaction (MGU drag) under acceleration, and used the diff ramps individually, (which is allowed in F1 rules) in the differential to transmit the drag to one wheel, the outside one (clutching the inside wheel out).... could you not effectively create a dragging brake on an accelerating wheel? This is what I mean by undetectable...
I have never used KERS, nor do I have an education on it, other the amount of info I've read on the subject (quite a bit), but logic to me is that if a generator can cause this much drag under a braking event, why wouldn't it be able to do the same under acceleration?
I would point out that braking creates much more G force than acceleration G does. A drag would have greater power under acceleration. IMH(tin hat)O

[hardingfv32]

1) Per the rules the electronic differential settings can only mimic what a mechanical differential might provide. No mechanical system can provide what you are proposing without active control.

2) If this was not the case then engine braking would be useful for your purpose. This is not the case currently in F1.

So, to get the effect you are after using KERS you are going to need two MGU units.

Brian

[Pierce89]

I had a foil hat moment in thinking about the KERS system on the RBull, and how the KERS affects brake bias when it's charging and discharging. It's major effect on the brake bias is such they actually need to re bias the car balance, especially in a failure.
The last time a huge protest and banning occurred in F1, was the "extra" brake pedal, that applied brake pressure to an outside rear wheel for traction control. Remember the glowing rotors? Still WDC for that year. That was Newey then....
So the tin foil hat moment...At RB, it's still Newey, and they have problems with their KERS, don't get use of it often during a race, or do they..maybe from one rear wheel, next corner the other rear wheel???? No glowing rotors to be found out, no third brake pedal..just a KERS system that doesn't work right...... all right I'll put the tin hat away, for now.

The extra brake pedal wasn't traction control on the outside. It was on the the inside rear tire to help the car turn. It's called a fiddle brake and every big tractor has one to turn tighter. It's in the September 2009 Racecar Engineering in a story with a real creative title: Mclaren F1 Secrets. In It was only good for one side of the car at a time so, it went to the right for a course with more rights or vice versa. It came on at the same time they were getting rid of the clutch so they just used the old clutch pedal.All according to the above mentioned issue of RCE.

[speedsense]

1) Per the rules the electronic differential settings can only mimic what a mechanical differential might provide. No mechanical system can provide what you are proposing without active control.

Sorry but this is incorrect, Every diff in F1 has adjustable ramps... it's not active controlled but electronic by changing the ramp percentages of locking and unlocking the diff, this is how the drivers currently effect how the diff operates from the steering. It is highly possible to build up a diff that has ramps capable of 100%, 90%, 80% unlock and same for locking... I could do this in my garage in about twenty minutes, not including the tear down or rebuild.

2) If this was not the case then engine braking would be useful for your purpose. This is not the case currently in F1.

Why would engine braking do anything for what I'm talking of? Maybe you miss understand, I'm talking about using the system to perform traction control, not improve braking.

[Formula None]

[speedsense]

I had a foil hat moment in thinking about the KERS system on the RBull, and how the KERS affects brake bias when it's charging and discharging. It's major effect on the brake bias is such they actually need to re bias the car balance, especially in a failure.
The last time a huge protest and banning occurred in F1, was the "extra" brake pedal, that applied brake pressure to an outside rear wheel for traction control. Remember the glowing rotors? Still WDC for that year. That was Newey then....
So the tin foil hat moment...At RB, it's still Newey, and they have problems with their KERS, don't get use of it often during a race, or do they..maybe from one rear wheel, next corner the other rear wheel???? No glowing rotors to be found out, no third brake pedal..just a KERS system that doesn't work right...... all right I'll put the tin hat away, for now.

The extra brake pedal wasn't traction control on the outside. It was on the the inside rear tire to help the car turn. It's called a fiddle brake and every big tractor has one to turn tighter. It's in the September 2009 Racecar Engineering in a story with a real creative title: Mclaren F1 Secrets. In It was only good for one side of the car at a time so, it went to the right for a course with more rights or vice versa. It came on at the same time they were getting rid of the clutch so they just used the old clutch pedal.All according to the above mentioned issue of RCE.

Yes I know, I have the edition and been a subscriber for some 20 years now. The car had the ability to switch the brake from side to side, from corner to corner and from entry to exit. Inside wheel braking was used to kill understeer on entry and outside on exit for killing wheelspin with brake drag. In fact one of the ways it was found were the many pictures of the rear (outside) rotor glowing on "known" wheelspin producing corners in Austria. The third pedal was discovered in Germany when Mika parked the car and a journalist snapped a picture inside.

[Formula None]

[Formula None]

[Formula None]

From Spain, but a good perspective on sidepods & engine cover:

[godlameroso]

I have come to the idea that there is some performance to be gained by regulating the pressure through the cooling chambers, to the way it's vented. In toilets, and most plumbing, you need a certain kink in the pipes in order to get a siphoning effect from your flush, I wonder if having the air that passes through the chassis with a kind of kink in the ducting would cause a similar effect? The way the ducting is shaped on the RB7 leads me to believe that's the case. It would explain why the hot air that comes out of the trumpet is in a vortex, it's very faint, but you can see it in the rain. If you could so control the pressure in the chassis, you could in effect have a second diffuser, albeit a highly inefficient one, but one nonetheless.

[HampusA]

Thank you. You made my day.

Apparently it did not make everyones day since i got a pm from the mods.

[hardingfv32]

Viewing the highly curved RB side pods in the above photo:

What is the nature or quality of the air flow around the side pod? It seems too round to stay attached. Would the quality of attachment stay the same as speed/flow increases?

I don't understand why the flow would want to move towards the top of the transmission.

Brian

[beelsebob]

Viewing the highly curved RB side pods in the above photo:

What is the nature or quality of the air flow around the side pod? It seems too round to stay attached. Would the quality of attachment stay the same as speed/flow increases?

I don't understand why the flow would want to move towards the top of the transmission.

Brian

Looks like a raindrop to me – that says it's absolutely perfect for the air to stay attached. Instead, I'd bet that other team's designs are the non-optimal ones, and that that's where a lot of RBR's advantage comes from. Only really the McLaren's design has merits over it.

[hardingfv32]

"Looks like a raindrop to me – that says it's absolutely perfect for the air to stay attached"

At what speed? Traveling through the pit lane?

Brian

[aral]

"Looks like a raindrop to me – that says it's absolutely perfect for the air to stay attached"

At what speed? Traveling through the pit lane?

Brian

A raindrop is the shape created on a drop of water as it passes through air. This makes a raindrop the perfect aerodynamic shape, with the rounded end pointing forward and the airflow pulling the fluid backwards and thus thinner. did you not study science in school?

PS Thats not an insult, but the principle is fundamental to fluids)