Mercedes GP W02

[Raptor22]

why use a lever when the throttle pedal oes the work just as well

the issue with the off throttle map is that it is not burning fuel the engine is infact runningg on fewer cylinders an blowing air over the valves ofthe cylinders that are not firing to aid cooling of the exhaust valves. thats the Renault system anyway. Its still hot air and the engine is being used as a pump to feed faster warm gases into the diffuser and keep its behaving consistently.
If they ban these infernal semi automatic gearboxes and have manuals with a clutch then perhaps we will see Senna type dancing on the throttle mid corner to keep gas flow up.

[Med4224]

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 53116.html

"Ich denke, wir werden dieses Jahr noch positive Überraschungen sehen."

He's saying that this year we should anticipate positive surprises...
I doubt Dieter Zetsche would say that if he didn't know something

[3one]

why use a lever when the throttle pedal oes the work just as well

the issue with the off throttle map is that it is not burning fuel the engine is infact runningg on fewer cylinders an blowing air over the valves ofthe cylinders that are not firing to aid cooling of the exhaust valves. thats the Renault system anyway. Its still hot air and the engine is being used as a pump to feed faster warm gases into the diffuser and keep its behaving consistently.
If they ban these infernal semi automatic gearboxes and have manuals with a clutch then perhaps we will see Senna type dancing on the throttle mid corner to keep gas flow up.

Since yes the gearboxes are automatic any throttle pedal input will be transferred to the wheels... I was thinking about feeding the EBD with pedal inputs but not the wheels?
They already have a similar mechanism used during the start of the race at 1st gear, would it be possible and Legal to have this in mid corner on higher gears?

[roadwarrior]

why use a lever when the throttle pedal oes the work just as well

the issue with the off throttle map is that it is not burning fuel the engine is infact runningg on fewer cylinders an blowing air over the valves ofthe cylinders that are not firing to aid cooling of the exhaust valves. thats the Renault system anyway. Its still hot air and the engine is being used as a pump to feed faster warm gases into the diffuser and keep its behaving consistently.
If they ban these infernal semi automatic gearboxes and have manuals with a clutch then perhaps we will see Senna type dancing on the throttle mid corner to keep gas flow up.

I thought the off throttle gas flow was created buy burning the fuel outside the engine in the exhaust. The expanding gases would produce a lot of energy and pressure down the exhaust thus blowing the diffuser quite effectively.

[3one]

I thought the off throttle gas flow was created buy burning the fuel outside the engine in the exhaust. The expanding gases would produce a lot of energy and pressure down the exhaust thus blowing the diffuser quite effectively.

Since off throttle gas flow will be reduced to 10% i was thinking of an on-throttle alternative, something like an old school clutch, then play the throttle pedal...

[Byronrhys]

I thought the off throttle gas flow was created buy burning the fuel outside the engine in the exhaust. The expanding gases would produce a lot of energy and pressure down the exhaust thus blowing the diffuser quite effectively.

Since off throttle gas flow will be reduced to 10% i was thinking of an on-throttle alternative, something like an old school clutch, then play the throttle pedal...

I think the FIA would gobble that up in no time, claiming it to be a movable aerodynamic device, you would have to be clever with it, something like the Evo's
TC-SST, the brake is effectively tho clutch and when you push it to a certain extent it open the clutch, something like that would be nice, but I don't think it would be good for the starts, is there a limit for the amount of clutch's?

[Pierce89]

Lets see what Mercedes bring.

I really think the FEE needs to be implemented in the next 3 races to have a good impact on the season. Saying that, if its rushed and doesnt work they will look silly.
As Brawn said its a fairly complex thing to get right.

But Mercedes stand to gain alot when you see how much they are losing with their current rudimentary system blowing the top of the diffuser. The FEE will certainly give them more to counter their issues with the rear.

Other than that, we have the same problem. New wing will not be added as it will only make the rear worse.

You seem sure they'll switch to FEE. Where did you hear this? I certainly hope it's true. I think Nico could really shine with just that bit more downforce he needs to be competitive.

[Ferraripilot]

Lets see what Mercedes bring.

I really think the FEE needs to be implemented in the next 3 races to have a good impact on the season. Saying that, if its rushed and doesnt work they will look silly.
As Brawn said its a fairly complex thing to get right.

But Mercedes stand to gain alot when you see how much they are losing with their current rudimentary system blowing the top of the diffuser. The FEE will certainly give them more to counter their issues with the rear.

Other than that, we have the same problem. New wing will not be added as it will only make the rear worse.

You seem sure they'll switch to FEE. Where did you hear this? I certainly hope it's true. I think Nico could really shine with just that bit more downforce he needs to be competitive.

I believe it was MB themselves who mentioned a couple weeks back that they were working on bringing an FEE update out shortly.

[PlatinumZealot]

Ross Brawn is Waaay overrated...

[donskar]

With all due respect to all, there's a lot of conjecture here without quite enough foundation: FEE, oversteer/understeer, not enough money, old infrastructure, Brawn is over-rated, Schu is overpaid, Schu is underpaid, etc.

My one cent worth: n_smikle notwithstanding, I don't think Brawn has gone from the golden throne of F1 to the porcelain throne virtually overnight. Barring a head injury that has been kept secret, he is at least quite competent at what he does -- far too good to let this happen on his watch. I'm guessing that M-B is pulling the strings and he is just along for the ride (and the money). I expect that M-B will NOT improve significantly (win a race) this year, and that Brawn and possibly Schu will move on to their well-deserved retirement.

[Formula None]

[xpensive]

...
My one cent worth: n_smikle notwithstanding, I don't think Brawn has gone from the golden throne of F1 to the porcelain throne virtually overnight. Barring a head injury that has been kept secret, he is at least quite competent at what he does -- far too good to let this happen on his watch. I'm guessing that M-B is pulling the strings and he is just along for the ride (and the money). I expect that M-B will NOT improve significantly (win a race) this year, and that Brawn and possibly Schu will move on to their well-deserved retirement.

As suggested upstreams Don, this is my fear as well. I know it's 20 years ago, but the sportscar which the Daimler engineers designed for Sauber at the time shows that there is an attitude of "they must all be idiots" there. The radically short wheelbase is a sign typical for such an attitude, like "hey, why didn't anyone think of this before, saves weight?".

One reason might be that such a short wheelbase gives poor traction and eats the rear tyres like nothing else, something the "weltmeister" engineers within Daimler didn't know as they never designed an F1 car before?

[marcush.]

It´s not like the Merc is a short car...it would have not been short only last year!I really doubt one could say this is the reason for their problem.It´s like the pullrodd discussion.
You got a fixed weight distribution now and if anything it takes away something of the ermoury if you have some trouble with balance...maybe Ross was a bit too clever with the ruleinfluencing mixing up cause and effect.
This car highlights some deficiencies with Mercedes GP .Something very obvious already in the 2009 season .They have big difficulty to get the car right on the weekend they got big trouble to come to the track with a car and know how they will perform ....And they have speed which is coming and going without predictability.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

And Mercedes are tackling the issue.
New members of staff, and new simulators and equipment. All this takes time to gel, and to calibrate.

Factor in new working methods, new people new equipment etc and it will never be an instant success unless you are extremely lucky.

What I put to detractos of the W01, W02 and Mercedes GP is this:
How would you change it?

Picking up a skeleton crew in 2009, how would you make the team win?

There will be 1000 different answers, but I can tell you all of them will need 1 thing. TIME.

The W02 is hit and miss. It uses its tyres quickly. But in the right conditions it is fast.
Lets refer to the Mercedes GP thread matters Mercedes GP and leave this as a technical one for the W02.

[xpensive]

It is indeed amazing that a thread on this mediocre car and equally mediocre team has amassed more than 200 pages,
in particular when a comparable team like Sauber is still on a measly 22, while Renault with its innovative xhaust is on 91!

Little doubt this is thanks to JET's never say die defense of both car and team, I admire his tenacity in difficult times!