Mercedes GP W02

[jav]

I also question an impending FEE. I do believe the current exhaust is not helping matters... possibly contributing more to rear tire issues than aiding in downforce but it's specualtive.

I think there's some clues to be had in the continued use of that front wing. In my mind, the front wing- being catilivered forward of the front tires, adds front downforce BUT ALSO "reduces" rear downforce via the cantilever effect. The fact that new front wings (presumably higher down force) upset balance, I believe is a result of this dynamic... which is exaserbated by the short wheel base effectively increasing the levered effect at the rear. This is possibly why they haven't done much with the front wing (including a full flex design) as their problem is at the back and more down force up front upsets that.

I confess that I don't know the sporting regs in this regard but it seems to me that shifting the rear wing planes further back, could help in this regard. A longer wheel base would also but that's not really doable at this point. It seems the rear wing endplates extend well aft of the foils... why couldn't the foils be shifted aft to add a greater rear cantilever effect so that rear downforce would be less effected by the front forces? Perhaps front and rear downforce could be improved without adding drag?

As for mechanical traction as required in Monaco- I'm not sure what can be one there.

[marcush.]

to me it´s not clear what is their real issue.
Just look at Virgin they lag behind miles ,as do Lotus ,TR at times (with the third fastest car),Williams and of course HRT...
The W02 has had the nod from both drivers that it has speed and potential,when last year rosberg was the positive one and Schumacher a bit cautious but this year it was like both drivers instantly felt the potential but now it seems the guys are unable to string it all together .Schumacher losing a full second in Qualy because he made one mistake ...and that was enough to ruin the tyres for the whole lap.They seem to be on a knife edge more than others ,and they were already last year ....
I think they will pull off something special this year somewhere simply by hitting the sweet spot by chance.
Rosberg seems to be unbelievable in terms of being hungry for success and I wonder how anyone else would fare against him in qualy...remember how he destroyed Nakashima? It was not like he could do that in the race but qualy seems to be an area were he does score just brilliant ,excellent.

[andrew]

A very wet race is probably Merc's best chance, with both Red Bulls, McLarens and Ferraris either out of the race or out of position.

Incidently, Ross Brawn is claiming that the 2012 car will be exceptional. I wish he wouldn't make statements like this. Similar comments were made last year, now look at the hulk that Merc have cobbled together.

[aral]

Maybe you are suggesting that they be used to turn the car into a hovercraft?
Interesting theory.

Er, no. Its basically how the system works, nothing sinister or stupid about the diagram is there?

Er, no. The FEE is normally designed to vent the gasses along the sidepod, and NOT to increase pressure below the floor. Check the Renault.

[xpensive]

But can you even begin to imagine the 2013 car andrew, it will surely take your breath away...when it will inclue a novel NXX system, "Nose Xhaust Xit"!

[andrew]

To be honest I think the 2013 car will be invisible and kept so secret that nobody knows it exists.

[jav]

to me it´s not clear what is their real issue.
Just look at Virgin they lag behind miles ,as do Lotus ,TR at times (with the third fastest car),Williams and of course HRT...
The W02 has had the nod from both drivers that it has speed and potential,when last year rosberg was the positive one and Schumacher a bit cautious but this year it was like both drivers instantly felt the potential but now it seems the guys are unable to string it all together .Schumacher losing a full second in Qualy because he made one mistake ...and that was enough to ruin the tyres for the whole lap.They seem to be on a knife edge more than others ,and they were already last year ....
I think they will pull off something special this year somewhere simply by hitting the sweet spot by chance.
Rosberg seems to be unbelievable in terms of being hungry for success and I wonder how anyone else would fare against him in qualy...remember how he destroyed Nakashima? It was not like he could do that in the race but qualy seems to be an area were he does score just brilliant ,excellent.

Very valid although it's pretty well established they are lacking rear downforce.

As far as both drivers giving the nod- and I agree they have- could this be down to the "feel" relative to last years car? W02 might "feel" better.. more balanced and confidence inspiring but may also be relatively slower than the field?

[Rikhart]

Maybe you are suggesting that they be used to turn the car into a hovercraft?
Interesting theory.

Er, no. Its basically how the system works, nothing sinister or stupid about the diagram is there?

Er, no. The FEE is normally designed to vent the gasses along the sidepod, and NOT to increase pressure below the floor. Check the Renault.

You are mistaken, most of it goes under the floor, and is designed to do so.

[donskar]

I'm afraid andrew has succinctly summarized this current M-B's competitiveness:

A very wet race is probably Merc's best chance, with both Red Bulls, McLarens and Ferraris either out of the race or out of position.

And the Renaults and Saubers, too?

I question whether the current team -- people and how they are organized/managed -- can do significantly better next year. I understand that Bob Bell is highly competent, but he is not another Newey. Unless there are significant changes around and in addition to Bell, why expect major improvement? I don't see year-over-year improvement 2010 to 2011. I do HOPE they'll improve, but as dear old Dad used to say, "hope in one hand and sh*t in the other and see which one fills up first."

[andrew]

I think they are ahead of Renault and Sauber but only if the car doesn't wreck its tyres.

I'm holding out for an extremely wet race at Spa and Schumacher finding his big joy again at that race. A recreation of the 1996 Spanish GP would be very noce indeed, only it'll be in Belguim.

[Rikhart]

Why oh why do they keep hyping themselves up? Now it´s the 2012 car that will "be excellent". Just shut up, talk on the track...

[Ribbentrop]

And Mercedes are tackling the issue.
New members of staff, and new simulators and equipment. All this takes time to gel, and to calibrate.

Factor in new working methods, new people new equipment etc and it will never be an instant success unless you are extremely lucky.

What I put to detractos of the W01, W02 and Mercedes GP is this:
How would you change it?

Picking up a skeleton crew in 2009, how would you make the team win?

There will be 1000 different answers, but I can tell you all of them will need 1 thing. TIME.

The W02 is hit and miss. It uses its tyres quickly. But in the right conditions it is fast.
Lets refer to the Mercedes GP thread matters Mercedes GP and leave this as a technical one for the W02.

Simple. Head hunt everyone just below Adrian Newey at Red Bull. Bring back Rory Byrne in a consulting role and fire proportionate number of Failed Designers at Brackley.

Additional Option: Convince Vijay Mallya that he is better off dissolving Force India and merging with Mercedes GP in exchange for a big one time pay-off, and a new "Senior Post" at the rebranded "Mercedes Petronas Kingfisher". This effectively financially merges the resources of two medium teams into one. The key is a GUARANTEED World Championship within 3 years of this combination.

Upgrade Wind Tunnel or take the one at Toyota.
Build hidden Test Track.

Throw all resources to make a car around Michael Schumacher.
Find loophole in F1 Testing Ban.

With this solution. I predict World Championship within 3 years of implementation and at least 3 straight titles after the first victory.

[wunderkind]

Simple. Head hunt everyone just below Adrian Newey at Red Bull. Bring back Rory Byrne in a consulting role and fire proportionate number of Failed Designers at Brackley.

Very very difficult to do as the top 30 technical guys at RedBull signed new contracts last year. Also, these guys seem like they genuinely enjoy working at RedBull. Rory Byrne has been away from F1 for too long.

Additional Option: Convince Vijay Mallya that he is better off dissolving Force India and merging with Mercedes GP in exchange for a big one time pay-off, and a new "Senior Post" at the rebranded "Mercedes Petronas Kingfisher". This effectively financially merges the resources of two medium teams into one. The key is a GUARANTEED World Championship within 3 years of this combination.

No way can such a combination work. Putting Mercedes GP and Force India together will only create a management nightmare and doesn't improve the areas that are needed the most. Such combination is like one riding on the shoulders of another. You don't get a stronger team as a result.

Upgrade Wind Tunnel or take the one at Toyota.
Build hidden Test Track.

Good idea and I'm sure they have explored it. But it is all down to the calibration of the windtunnel these days. Ferrari is using the Toyota windtunnel at the moment. But the FIA has been trying to limit the use of windtunnels. Most teams are putting a lot of resources into CFD. As for the hidden test track.............you mean a state-of-the-art simulator? It's coming in 2013 accoding to the Team.

Throw all resources to make a car around Michael Schumacher.
Find loophole in F1 Testing Ban.

I think they did design the W02 around Michael, but it has not worked out.

With this solution. I predict World Championship within 3 years of implementation and at least 3 straight titles after the first victory.

Ross Brawn knows how to build a winning team and I'm sure he will do it again with Mercedes Benz.

[Pierce89]

My whole gripe is that as a manufacturer, I find it indefensible that they are struggling, more so than other teams using their engines, with basic issues such as cooling.

Um only McLaren are outperforming them. Force India are not faster or the same pace as Mercedes.

My whole gripe is that as a manufacturer, I find it indefensible that they are struggling

You will never be winners simply copying.

Worked for Mclaren in 2007

[Adamski]

Back on the technical aspects of the W02, I don't think the first and most important change to this car is a FEE. It's too complex system, so it is too much risk, to implement it into their very thigh packaging.

- First of all they need to look after the cooling issues, because it will hamper them in every hotter tracks.
- The second think is the tire management. They need to look deeply into the dates they have, because sometimes they struggles but sometimes not. (For example in China, there were no problems)
- Finally, Schumacher need to find solutions to the slippery rear end. (I think Rosberg got the upper hand from this point of view)

After these things, get a FEE on the car maybe help them going faster. But it's not the most important thing, they need now. (IMO...)