Mercedes GP W02

[ForMuLaOne]

I am quite surprised to see a slowly developing W02. At the beginning of the season i thought they had MASSIVE updates in the pipeline. My opinion abot this car is that they still have those upgrades, but they simply wait before they sorted out their setup problems. Some parts of the Barcelona upgrade were parts they ran on W01. I am still wondering about the sidepot area as it looks like there is something underneath hidden by those raw panels. Hope so.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The additional mass flow provided by FEE will increase the main floor suction peak as well as strengthen the T-tray.

This in itself will help Mercedes overcome some of their rear traction issues, as blowing the top of the diffuser from the middle, they are obviously trying to pin the pressure more centrally. Why have the exhaust so far forward exposed to the air otherwise?

Brawn is sold on the FEE idea as many interivews indicate. It also explains his reluctance for a ban on "off throttle blowing", when all indicators suggested that perhaps Mercedes would gain from a ban.

The problem I have with this being the silver bullet, is quite simple. Its complex to do this in-season and with their current radiator and KERS layout allied to a short wheelbase. This would make packaging the idea difficult and also engine mappings would need to be changed in conjunction with Mercedes HPE to suit the FEE concept. Maybe this is Mercedes taking their time to make sure they get it right.
The first tangible signs of Bell's presence one may say.

[xpensive]

This rambling about an FEE being the magic trick for Mercedes is pretty much unfathomable to me. Where is it written that this kind of xhaust is a success for Renault anyway, it's not like they've set the tracks on fire yet and nobody else but MGP seems to be keen on copying them?

When the "afterburner" xhausts are likey to be banned as from 2012, the FEE will be pretty useless next year anyway?

With limited resources as it is, MGP would be better of letting Bob Bell design a decent chassis for 2012 me thinks.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

This rambling

Sorry lord, forgive me for expressing myself.

[andrew]

...it's not like they've set the tracks on fire yet and nobody else but MGP seems to be keen on copying them?

Set the car on fire though.

[BrawnGP]

All their upgrade plans have obviously gone out of the window as they didnt have a clue as to how to set the car up. Now the only problem is the rear tyre wear. Surely a by product of a lack of downforce at the rear or the exhaust gases blasting the tyres? When the f*ck are they going to put a new exhuast system on this car!!!!!????

I agree with JET that FEE might be the way forward but i think it has now Limited Renault, ie they seem to be going backwards and cant seem to improve their diffuser anymore. Unlike RB And Mclaren who still find gains in developing that area. Mclaren changed their whole exhaust in a matter of weeks to copy Red Bull!!! And i think Merc should do the same.

The car is obviously quick as Their No1 driver Rosberg has shown in quali. But i wont be surprised if thay keep the MEE all season, hopefully the ban on EBD off throttle will help!

I'm looking forward to Rosberg Qualifying top 3 in Canada and then watching him crumble and finish 10th in the race!!!!!!!

[Timstr]

Question form "Marco": Is the exhaust solution from Mercedes the reason why the rear tires degrade so much, or this is due to something else? And is it possible that if the exhaust solutions are forbidden, that issue will be resolved?

Brawn: Possibly we did not expect the tire degradation to this extent, but I think no one did - it's pointed out by the high number of pit stops we have seen so far. Our vehicle concept, in this respect, is perhaps not ideal. But we are working on some changes for the next race, which should resolve this weakness. In China, the front tires were the crucial factor and there it was clear that we can be competitive under those conditions. But we have to improve on tracks which are more demanding for the rear tires.(Source: AMuS)

[xpensive]

Actually, I have this feeling that RB might not be totally at sea with his statement for 2012, even if it rings a little funny, but if he can forge a close liasion with Bob Bell and MSC, they could actually get their act together as a team.

Remember that Bell's 2005-06 chassis beat Rory Byrne's cars fair and squre, though with a little help form Michelin, and if he's allowed to focus on 2012 without disturbance from Stuttgart, with the Mercedes engine, he should get it right.

[Ferraripilot]

Actually, I have this feeling that RB might not be totally at sea with his statement for 2012, even if it rings a little funny, but if he can forge a close liasion with Bob Bell and MSC, they could actually get their act together as a team.

Remember that Bell's 2005-06 chassis beat Rory Byrne's cars fair and squre, though with a little help form Michelin, and if he's allowed to focus on 2012 without disturbance from Stuttgart, with the Mercedes engine, he should get it right.

Agreed that Bell should get cracking with next year's car, but this car is not a lost cause if the only issue is the rear end. Unless the rear end has some fundamental issue wrong with it which cannot be corrected without redesigning much of the car then they have much to gain by simply changing the type of exhaust system they are using.

As it has been said before, MB's current exhaust looses too much energy with its current positioning. As for what JET said with the FEE, it could be what the car needs in terms of centralized downforce but we certainly don't know for sure unless JET has data we don't know about. Although JET's contention regarding the FEE certainly makes sense enough for idle conjecture.

[dren]

Question form "Marco": Is the exhaust solution from Mercedes the reason why the rear tires degrade so much, or this is due to something else? And is it possible that if the exhaust solutions are forbidden, that issue will be resolved?

Brawn: Possibly we did not expect the tire degradation to this extent, but I think no one did - it's pointed out by the high number of pit stops we have seen so far. Our vehicle concept, in this respect, is perhaps not ideal. But we are working on some changes for the next race, which should resolve this weakness. In China, the front tires were the crucial factor and there it was clear that we can be competitive under those conditions. But we have to improve on tracks which are more demanding for the rear tires.(Source: AMuS)

This points to the design around the short wheel base of the car for aero reasons, mainly the diffuser and the way the exhaust works with it. I am also suspect of the rear suspension springs, or lack of.

[dren]

This rambling about an FEE being the magic trick for Mercedes is pretty much unfathomable to me. Where is it written that this kind of xhaust is a success for Renault anyway, it's not like they've set the tracks on fire yet and nobody else but MGP seems to be keen on copying them?

When the "afterburner" xhausts are likey to be banned as from 2012, the FEE will be pretty useless next year anyway?

With limited resources as it is, MGP would be better of letting Bob Bell design a decent chassis for 2012 me thinks.

I agree. I don't think there is an FEE in the works. Who's to say that the FEE is even the best option? The team struggled with reliability issues from the start and has been focused on that, leaving them behind on the performance side relative to the competition.

I still haven't seen any concrete evidence of an FEE in development.

[jav]

The exhaust energy in general is only a significant factor now becuase of the off throttle mappings...which are on the chopping per the FIA. Take that away, and the exhaust energy become a much less important factor for downforce in general.

I would agree Merc needs to explore the impact of the exhaust placement (and current energy) with respect to rear tire heating... but not so much as a way forward to improving downforce. To that end, it doesn't make sense, with limited resources, to invest too much into exploring exhuast performance advantages that are likely to be banned.

There's little chance this team will improve on last years points... it'll be a tall order to finish 4th at this rate. Thier engineering prowess has also been sub par so abandoning this season to focus on next seems silly. We did that last year and look where we are.

They need to use this season as a real world test bed to understand the nuances of each system. Figure out what works, what doesn't, and why. Then apply that knowledge in an evolutionary fashion to W02 until the results correlate with the expectations. Lastly- continue the evolution with W03 in the off season. This may be more likely to produce progress than trying to be "revolutionary" from a position of not fully understanding your current failings.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Jav

Brawn is opposed to the ban of on "off" throttle blowing. This tells me that somthing is certainly in the works at Mercedes regards a new exhaust.
Now what are they to do? If they have invested this time and effort into something only for it to be banned on the whim of smaller teams(+ Cosworth) then that is tough luck for Mercedes.

But forge ahead they must. I understand we are likely to see something from them in terms of updates, specifically related to the exhaust. Even if there is a ban, it will reduce the system only, not kill it.

So like Ferraripilot said, it is conjecture. Im certainly no insider, but im going on my rudimentary understanding.

Interesting to me is drens post. Lack of Springs? Can someone expand on this for me please?

[dren]

Interesting to me is drens post. Lack of Springs? Can someone expand on this for me please?

It's just an idea as I think Mclaren went this route last year? They remove the rear torsion springs and just stick with dampers and a heave spring. I suspect suspension issues are causing the rear end tire wear problems. The set-up and changing of simple spring rates and dampers is one area they found good gains early in the season. I suspect this is also the area that is causing them issues, not the exhaust blowing.

[PhillipM]

Heave spring and anti-roll bar, the combination of movement in the two allows you to get rid of the usual corner springs.