Bahrain GP situation: postponed, reinstated, cancelled

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Race in Bahrain?

Yes.
27
29%
Don't care either way.
7
8%
No.
59
63%
 
Total votes: 93

myurr
myurr
9
Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Change of date for Bahrain

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Max Speed wrote:I see the point you are making, but I still say the line needs to be drawn somewhere...so is it a Libian Grand Prix next, with Martin on his gridwalk asking the colonel his thoughts on witnessing F1 for the first time?
If it is safe to hold a race in Libya, and they wish to stage one, then so be it. Sport should not be used as a political tool by either side of the argument, and segregation of countries due to the actions of their leaders rarely has any positive effect at all. By including countries on the world stage and exposing them to western scrutiny you are more likely to have an effect on their government.

I abhor the IRA and Hamas, for example. However through both being democratically elected they have, to an extent, been forced to take a more mainstream and grown up approach to their causes. Both still have a long way to go, and I would rather the populace of their respective countries would see them for what they are and vote differently. But equally they both have improved from where they were due to the additional responsibilities and scrutiny they have assumed due to their electoral successes.

One way to spread democracy and human rights is to invade countries and impose western values upon them. Sometimes this is the right approach. Other approaches can include hosting western sporting events in those countries bringing media attention and western morals, including them in international organisations, and giving them responsibility on the world stage.

Taking their toys away and imposing sanctions is sometimes a valid approach, but rarely leads to success.

red748
red748
0
Joined: 30 May 2011, 23:51
Location: London

Re: Bahrain is reinstated! What do you think?

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I think most genuine F1 followers would approve of cancelling the Bahrain
GP in preference for 2 races at Spa, Barcelona or Monaco.

Imagine an F1 double bill at Spa !!!!

It gets my vote........

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ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Bahrain is reinstated! What do you think?

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Giblet wrote:
n smikle wrote:So not bringing F1 is a form of punishment for the government then?
Yes, in the case of Bahrain it is directly a form of punishment to the government.
The universal rights to punish anyone that doesn't do right in our eyes...
Ok god. :)

So it's not about the people's rights again my lord?



Extremists think the same thing. Not saying you are an extremist or god, but if you put yourself in their shoes, you're going to want to punish someone 5000 miles away because they don't see eye to eye with you.
Maybe hold some thing hostage (f1 race in this case) until they meet your demands then kill it if they don't?

I'm not trolling here, but ironically that's what all boycotters are trying to do with this race. It's a bargaining chip.
For Sure!!

doink
doink
0
Joined: 22 May 2011, 22:51

Re: Bahrain is reinstated! What do you think?

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It's back on the cards, Bernie says it's not got anything to do with money. So what is it? Loyalty to the crown prince? It must be a massive headache and therefore expense to put it back into the season and moving the India GP, so there's got to be a resounding reason?

Maybe Bernie doesn't think India will be ready and it's being used as an excuse to let them get everything finished on time?

User avatar
SiLo
138
Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: Bahrain is reinstated! What do you think?

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It's a disgrace, now finishing at an unknown track and racing in a place where there is civil unrest and martial law. Is Bernie totally insane?
Felipe Baby!

Giblet
Giblet
5
Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Re: Bahrain is reinstated! What do you think?

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ringo wrote:
Giblet wrote:
n smikle wrote:So not bringing F1 is a form of punishment for the government then?
Yes, in the case of Bahrain it is directly a form of punishment to the government.
The universal rights to punish anyone that doesn't do right in our eyes...
Ok god. :)

So it's not about the people's rights again my lord?



Extremists think the same thing. Not saying you are an extremist or god, but if you put yourself in their shoes, you're going to want to punish someone 5000 miles away because they don't see eye to eye with you.
Maybe hold some thing hostage (f1 race in this case) until they meet your demands then kill it if they don't?

I'm not trolling here, but ironically that's what all boycotters are trying to do with this race. It's a bargaining chip.

Ringo, calling me god and my lord for expressing my opinion is crass and disrespectful. I am disappointed that expressing my opinion means I have a god complex.

The Bahrain government is using sport as political tool, but you think we should let them, and that makes me god. Nice segway there.

Not cool Ringo, really. Learn to behave when someone has a different position that yourself and respect it, even if it crap in your mind.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

Giblet
Giblet
5
Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Re: Bahrain is reinstated! What do you think?

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Remember, they already lost the race this year. Bahrain screwed up, now it is the FIA's choice to do what they want. I was not suggesting they use the race as punishment, I was saying not having the race that they already lost from their original contracted position due to the murder spree is punishment to them.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

Richard
Richard
Moderator
Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: Bahrain is reinstated! What do you think?

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As you say, the race had already been cancelled. That should have been it for 2011, it should have been history.

myurr
myurr
9
Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Bahrain is reinstated! What do you think?

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Giblet wrote:Remember, they already lost the race this year. Bahrain screwed up, now it is the FIA's choice to do what they want. I was not suggesting they use the race as punishment, I was saying not having the race that they already lost from their original contracted position due to the murder spree is punishment to them.
Then I hope you also boycotted the Chinese GP and do not plan to watch the Indian GP. In fact its probably best to skip most of the rest of the season too lest you be seen to reward and support murderous, anti-democratic, and / or corrupt states. Or is it okay to support those races as long as they stick to their original contracted positions that weren't motivated by money what-so-ever?

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ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Bahrain is reinstated! What do you think?

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Giblet wrote:

Ringo, calling me god and my lord for expressing my opinion is crass and disrespectful. I am disappointed that expressing my opinion means I have a god complex.

The Bahrain government is using sport as political tool, but you think we should let them, and that makes me god. Nice segway there.

Not cool Ringo, really. Learn to behave when someone has a different position that yourself and respect it, even if it crap in your mind.

Giblet sorry about the God thing, but look on this from a different perspective, a non G20 perspective if you will.
Your opinion is you right, i was just expressing a potential interpretation of what people will have when they see someone saying this guy needs to be punished for running his country in a different way than yours.

Bahrain is not using the sport as a political tool. They are using it as entertainment.

What I understand is that those who are against the race want to take away that entertainment to eliminate any chance of it being a positive thing for the country.
Since it will probably make things a little more relaxed internally.

Making things more restless makes the people more irate, which reflects poorly on the country and it seems that's what some want.

The leader may be a scum bag, but depriving thousands of people of a race, just to get one guy annoyed just reminds me of many of the sanctioninst mentalities and world policing throughout history that did more harm to the people than good.

Can you go into more detail as to why you think it is being used as a political tool?
And do you look at the Chinese GP and government in the same light?
For Sure!!

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ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Bahrain is reinstated! What do you think?

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Giblet wrote:Remember, they already lost the race this year. Bahrain screwed up, now it is the FIA's choice to do what they want. I was not suggesting they use the race as punishment, I was saying not having the race that they already lost from their original contracted position due to the murder spree is punishment to them.
Now that you put it this way, then yeah it happened that way.
I think they missed the boat, and i don't really want to see it squeezed in, since they aren't more special than the other countries, but the rate at which this championship is going, the more races the better.

Interesting readin for both sides of the coin:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92002
There is merrit in both sides i think
For Sure!!

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Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Bahrain is reinstated! What do you think?

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Frankly, although as many people in the forum, I despise dictatorships (and the people that can resist to live under them), I think that there is no good reason to suspend the GP for political reasons. Perhaps it would be feasible because of safety reasons, but I don't think this is the case.

Altough, also to be frank, if I were an Al Quaida operative living in Bahrain, I would be smiling, thinking about all the easy targets... I wonder why FIA is able to take the word of the present ruler on the issue of safety, but, well, it's not my life.

However, I would like to see what would happen if, I don't know, Silverstone, expelled all their Orthodox employees (I'm not mentioning any other religions, in the name of peace).

I would say that the FIA MUST start an investigation because of religious discrimination.

I think that, if true, the circuit risks to lose the race permit, at least under current FIA principles and rules. There is no need to invoke the revolution, the cruelty, the bullets, the name of the ruler or anything else.

Blatant employee discrimination because of religious motives is not allowed by FIA statutes. I fail to see why this should be mixed with the revolution thing.

For a lawyer, it would be better to separate both, because it is very clear that institutional racism certainly falls under the "bring the sport into disrepute" clause, while the "battling the revolution" clause doesn't exist.

It also goes against FIA general principles.

That is, if the Goodwins at FIA, starting by Mosley and his friends, don't agree with it and surreptitiously push the issue under the rug.

I also hope nobody here starts to say that discrimination is allowed and it is not related at all with the sport or the contracts between FIA and teams.

Sure you can have races in Russia, while they have a battle in Chechenya, but can F1 race in South Africa under the apartheid?

Oops. Yes, they did.

However, do you agree it is not related to the sport? Would you like to have a bunch of cars in the desert racing, but all driven by devote atheists? (atheists can be devote!).
Ciro

andrew
andrew
0
Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: Change of date for Bahrain

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donskar wrote:A rather unfortunate post, Andrew. Mature humans recognize that perfection is a goal to be pursued, but never attained. That being the case, those same mature humans work hard to discriminate among the varying degrees of "right and wrong." We (some of us) recognize that lack of perfection is not the same as total corruption. You are right: no country has a "spotless human rights record." But that is a statement that ends thoughtful discussion, rather than recognizing the need for such discussion. The obvious, and useless response is "so?"
The obvious response is not "so" at all, you are quite wrong, so kindly leave the patronizing tones at the door. It is question of where do you draw the line. To my mind, a government exterminating their own people (if the western media is to be believed) is just as bad as the UK and US government killing thousands in the middle east for cheap oil, whilst hiding behind something as noble as "democracy".

Citing Bahrain's recent human rights violations is weak compared with years of human rights violations by the so called western super-powers.
Max Speed wrote:I see the point you are making, but I still say the line needs to be drawn somewhere...so is it a Libian Grand Prix next, with Martin on his gridwalk asking the colonel his thoughts on witnessing F1 for the first time?
If it is safe then why not? Colonel Gadaffi will be in favour again once the mess is sorted out. Seems to be the run of things where he is concerned. He falls in and out of favour depending which way the wind's blowing.
N12ck wrote:I dont think f1 should be getting involved with politics, as its a sport not a political party, so I say unless there is danger to the drivers/ fans / teams let them race :)
Darn right!!! =D>

Giblet
Giblet
5
Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Re: Bahrain is reinstated! What do you think?

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Thanks Ringo. I was actually going to quote that article as well. Mosley's sentiments mirror mine for the most part.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Bahrain is reinstated! What do you think?

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http://www.pitpass.com/43828-Time-for-F ... ke-a-stand

Pretty good article by Mike Lawrence. I recommend reading.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)