Flywheel KERS

[Jan_83]

Has anybody dimensions of the flybrid F1 KERS that are more dtailing than "fit into a DIN A4 paper"?
Some rough dimensions or drawings. Din't find anything usefull on google.

Greetings,
Jan

[autogyro]

Has anybody dimensions of the flybrid F1 KERS that are more dtailing than "fit into a DIN A4 paper"?
Some rough dimensions or drawings. Din't find anything usefull on google.

Greetings,
Jan

Flywheel KERS for F1 is now induction charged and not flybrid.
The size depends on decisions made that effect packaging and weight.
All current KERS in FI AFAIK use battery storage.
Cooling the batteries seems to be considered a better route than using flywheel storage. (Even Williams ideas for flywheel F1 KERS use battery storage).
I do not know if details of the original Williams KERS system using flybrid
are available (probably not).
IMO the toloroidal driven flywheel storage is a dead end in F1 and future Hybrids.
It cannot be used in a 'plug in' Hybrid, and batteries will be the future.
For some self contained transport systems flybrid may be used and of course in the stop gap performance applications seen from Porsche etc.
Volvo has just bought a pup with it for road use, as they did long term with the CVT Van Doorne belt transmissions.
Range extender Hybrids
(which look to be the best route at present between IC and EVs)
work better if they can also be re-charged. This factor eliminates flywheel storage. Of course pure electric is best, why carry two energy sources?

[Giblet]

The one main advantage with the flywheel KERS though is maintenance IIRC. They need very little over its racing season, and with the vacuum seal system they use there is a very small amount of oil that needs to be recharged.

I think we might see flywheel KERS in junior series at some time, but who knows. Once batteries are introduced, then that advantage goes away, as they obviously need regular replacement.

[Caito]

I think in a couple years we'll probably see supercapacitor kers, rather than batteries. They can charge really fast, discharge fast too. Just don't meet weight criteria at the moment.

[autogyro]

I think in a couple years we'll probably see supercapacitor kers, rather than batteries. They can charge really fast, discharge fast too. Just don't meet weight criteria at the moment.

You may be right Caito, although IMO capacitors and batteries will get closer in weight and will be used in combination.
I did suggest a small induction flywheel with batteries for this years KERS but non of the teams bought into it, at least not yet.

[FW17]

WHP in the Porsche hybrid looks massive even though it is twice the capacity

any idea why power electronics is not shared?

[Edis]

It can be interesting to note that flywheels have a significantly greater potential than both batteries and capacitors with regard to energy density. While theoretical limits will keep the energy density of batteries and capacitors below 10% of the energy density of gasoline, a flywheel actually has the potential to exceed the energy density of gasoline.

[WhiteBlue]

2012 Audi R18 e-tron quattro Le Mans car

Williams to supply hybrid system for Audi Le Mans car
Le Mans 24 Hours


Williams Hybrid Power will build part of Audi’s new Le Mans car, the team has confirmed.

WHP will produce the hybrid system energy storage supplier for the Audi R18 e-tron quattro.

The company has produced an ultra-lightweight electric flywheel and electronics system for the car, which was revealed yesterday. The flywheel spins at up to 45,000rpm and produces 150kW of power.

The Audi R18 e-tron quattro will make its race debut in the six hours of Spa on May 5th, a round of the new World Endurance Championship, prior to the Le Mans 24 Hours.

A statement released by WHP said: “The defining features of WHP’s flywheel made it the prime energy storage candidate for Audi’s project when compared to other technologies such as batteries, ultra-capacitors or mechanical flywheels.

“The main benefits of the WHP system are a high power density and correspondingly low mass, high efficiency energy transfer to and from the e-storage, the ability to continuously deep power cycle and an insusceptibility to performance or life degradation over a wide range of operating temperatures. In short, the technology is perfectly suited to the high performance demands of endurance racing.”

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/03/01/w ... -mans-car/

[joseff]

...a flywheel actually has the potential to exceed the energy density of gasoline.

I'm guessing this is by weight and not by volume?
Link please?

[Edis]

...a flywheel actually has the potential to exceed the energy density of gasoline.

I'm guessing this is by weight and not by volume?
Link please?

It's by weight yes. Flywheels store energy by kinetic energy, meaning it will follow mv^2/2. For instance, one kg having a velocity of 10000 m/s will store 50 MJ. Of course, centrifugal forces will limit the velocity one could practically use. By simply dividing the tensile strength with the density of the flywheel material we'll get the maximum energy density of a flywheel. For instance, a steel flywheel capable of 2000 MPa with a density of 7800 kg/m3 will provide a maximum energy density of 0.26 MJ/kg (70 Wh/kg). Carbon fibre having a strength of 6000 MPa and a density of 1400 kg/m3 will offer 4.3 MJ/kg (1200 Wh/kg) and carbon nanotubes with a strength of 60000 MPa and a density of 1300 kg/m3 will offer an energy density of 46 MJ/kg (12.8 kWh/kg), thus surpassing gasoline in terms of energy density.

[autogyro]

...a flywheel actually has the potential to exceed the energy density of gasoline.

I'm guessing this is by weight and not by volume?
Link please?

It's by weight yes. Flywheels store energy by kinetic energy, meaning it will follow mv^2/2. For instance, one kg having a velocity of 10000 m/s will store 50 MJ. Of course, centrifugal forces will limit the velocity one could practically use. By simply dividing the tensile strength with the density of the flywheel material we'll get the maximum energy density of a flywheel. For instance, a steel flywheel capable of 2000 MPa with a density of 7800 kg/m3 will provide a maximum energy density of 0.26 MJ/kg (70 Wh/kg). Carbon fibre having a strength of 6000 MPa and a density of 1400 kg/m3 will offer 4.3 MJ/kg (1200 Wh/kg) and carbon nanotubes with a strength of 60000 MPa and a density of 1300 kg/m3 will offer an energy density of 46 MJ/kg (12.8 kWh/kg), thus surpassing gasoline in terms of energy density.

I guess that is where Patrick wants it to go.
He could be right.
There is certainly more scope for developement outside F1.