Bahrain GP situation: postponed, reinstated, cancelled

[Mr Alcatraz]

The FiA should know better than trying to stage a race in a country that effectively is a bloody murderous dictatorship.

I am sure more minorities get killed in the US from police brutality.
I can browse youtube and put up some videos, but you know already. These people aren't revolutionaries or anything and they still get killed.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgQl7D7DXAo[/youtube]
this is the US. No government protest or anything, just a handicapped black guy sitting in a wheel chair; or that's what Ali G says.

Bahrain is not Europe. When people protest they don't walk with placcards and chain themselves to gates and sing coombayah.
They use ak47s, stones, and explosives to protest. The only defense the police have is to shoot anything that run towards them chanting last prayers, or holding an Ak 47.

It's not Europe white blue. You can't apply certain rules to these places.

In my country, there is no such thing as rubber bullets or sheilds. You want to protest, you do so peacefully without wielding any guns or explosives. Try anything stupid and you get tear gassed then shot.

I'll go with Buemi's uncle. Just a small protest being overblown. It's happened in my country last year, and i know what it feels like to be misrepresented by the CNN and BBC.

I've got news for you ringo the police brutalize the --- out of anybody that they feel like in California, especially if they don't think they are being given the proper respect. We have a saying in San Diego:
The Police don't shoot people; they empty their clips into them.
A few years ago a homeless guy was outside a McDonalds and picked up a branch of a tree and started pointing it at people. The cops show up and their telling this guy to put down the branch and lay down. Meanwhile a canine unit pulls up and instead of bringing the dog out in front where the rest of the police are (I think 2 or three squad cars) and let it go and take the guy down if necessary. This genius, against police procedure takes the dog around behind the guy and the Victim (with the branch still in his hand) takes a couple steps forward when he hears the aggressive noise of the dog. and the police blow the dude away. Despite a public outcry by the people that lived in this typical San Diego area actually it's close to the beach. The police action was found to be justified and the cop handling the dog was repremanded [-o<
Thankfully these are rare events and happen about as many times as police are killed in the line of action which is not very often.

[PlatinumZealot]

If(when) the race takes place in 2012, and 2013 for that matter, it really should be raced under the premise of unity and peace.

Something symbolic that has deep resonance with both factions. I would liken it to a big sporting event that happened in my home country South Africa.
The Rugby World Cup of 1995 brought my country closer even though it was a predominantly white sport. It was palyed for all of South Africa and was a triumph of sport over politics.

I can only hope Bahrain achieves 1/10th of that tidal wave of emotion.

Ok good answer because maybe Bernie feels that Bahrain can achieve this by November.

[Ciro Pabón]

I think the news here is not the revolution, but the firing of Shia employees from a race course sanctioned by FIA, but, who am I to solve the problems of this thread?

Perhaps if I deflect the flak with a story it will do some good.

Frankly, I'd say that in this world we share today, sports will have to find a way to deal with people that lives in countries where sudden changes in government happen.

I would keep the contract with the Taliban... if they win the government, have a valid contract for the race and they adhere to minimal human rights and the FIA regulations. "Lemme see the fans in Afghanistan and then we can talk", that would be my motto...

After all, people raced under Nero. He actually built a nice racetrack (I think that Saint Peter in the Vatican is on top of its remains).

Heck, people raced under Goodwin.

Hopefully, they didn't so while christians were being crucified at the racecourse (if that actually happened, which Gibbons deny, btw).

I don't know how many people here is aware of the Nike revolts. Although racing doesn't have in Bahrain the protagonism it had in Bizancio, the similarity can be enlightening.

It is an interesting Wikipedia article. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots

Sorry, I always wanted to post this picture and say that Nike is the greek word for victory. The Niké was the victor at the races. This is the Winged Victory of Samothrace or Nike. This is one of the more powerful images in the history of racing.


You know, they had four chariot racing teams in Bizancio. The Reds, the Whites, the Blues and the Greens.

Yeah, you guessed it. The Reds and the Whites were in a bad year that year. Exactly like Ferrari and Mclaren are now.

A McLaren MP-XVIII makes a deep brake on the inner side. A Ferrari (was Massa already driving in 542 AD? I think so...) watch helplessly on the outside.


The Emperor at Bizancio was a huge fan of the Blues, like Khalifa at Bahrain is today...

So, one day the Emperor Justinian went to the racecourse, a sunny morning of January, in 532 AD.

People was angry, because two fanboys of the Green and Blue teams had been sentenced to death, for murdering other fans.

Sure: they did not had forums back then, but they would have been BANNED (that is, if Giblet had put his hands on them).

Anyway, this proves that hooliganism is as ancient as mankind. They, frankly, needed a couple of moderators like Dave, if you ask me.

So, the Emperor, having a heart of gold, as Tomba, commuted the senteces for prison before going into the track. It did not do enough good: when he entered the stadium a riot broke out. He had to retreat to the palace, under siege.

Solution: Emperor representatives went to the track (FIA is VERY old, let me tell you), that is, a lawyer (Tribonius, or Mosley for his friends) and an eunuch (legend has it was very short and white haired, bad temper, called John the Capadocian, tax collector).

They bribed the Blue team. Problem solved.

So, my suggestiong: bribe Red Bull and keep the GP. Specially under the new government that probably will run the country. Ask Empress Theodora what she thought about that (she was also a huge fangirl).

Oh, and all employees fired from the track should be reinstated.

However, people, read history. Maybe you'll find quite a few examples of racing and politics intermixed. After all the rich and the races have been intermixed through history.

So, don't tell me that racing and politics are not related. Actually, the policy is the essence of a man's life, correct me if I'm wrong. At least, that was what Aristotle said (he was also a huge fanboy, if I can mention that).

[PlatinumZealot]

When Bahrain's contract is up, if there is a viable alternative that can:

A - Have actual people from the host country come to the race
B - Behave in a such a way to attract foreigners to watch, not scare them away
C - Refrain from murdering it's citizens

.. then that alternative will look quite promising.

Everything will be fine.

Don't worry your little head. I wanna see the two showdowns in in the Desert.

[Giblet]

Well, here is today's Bahrain news, reported from a website with little western bias.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middl ... 96776.html

"Scores of Bahraini doctors and nurses who treated injured anti-government protesters have been charged with attempting to topple the kingdom's monarchy.

The 23 doctors and 24 nurses were formally charged on Monday during a closed door hearing in a special security court.

The 47 accused have been in detention since March, when the country declared martial law in order to clamp down on a wave of demonstrations that swept the tiny kingdom earlier this year.

Though the emergency law was lifted last week, Bahraini authorities have warned opposition activists of "consequences" in case of any further challenges to the government."

Hmm. Everything seems FINE over there.

[PlatinumZealot]

It's normal for them.

Hey, did you care about Bahrain before all of this? And what are you doing to help them now

hmm? Ahh! Got you now!

[ringo]

I've got news for you ringo the police brutalize the --- out of anybody that they feel like in California, especially if they don't think they are being given the proper respect. We have a saying in San Diego:
The Police don't shoot people; they empty their clips into them.
A few years ago a homeless guy was outside a McDonalds and picked up a branch of a tree and started pointing it at people. The cops show up and their telling this guy to put down the branch and lay down. Meanwhile a canine unit pulls up and instead of bringing the dog out in front where the rest of the police are (I think 2 or three squad cars) and let it go and take the guy down if necessary. This genius, against police procedure takes the dog around behind the guy and the Victim (with the branch still in his hand) takes a couple steps forward when he hears the aggressive noise of the dog. and the police blow the dude away. Despite a public outcry by the people that lived in this typical San Diego area actually it's close to the beach. The police action was found to be justified and the cop handling the dog was repremanded [-o<
Thankfully these are rare events and happen about as many times as police are killed in the line of action which is not very often.

There you go, sounds worse than Bahrain, only that it's not being reported world wide on CNN.

[Giblet]

It's normal for them.

Hey, did you care about Bahrain before all of this? And what are you doing to help them now

hmm? Ahh! Got you now!

No, I only started caring about Bahrain when first, they got an F1 race, then second, when they started the murdering.

I have a charity/cause I contribute to and volunteer my time for. I choose to focus on something local, like the people of Bahrain were doing when they were shot. I am not a part timer, as you suggest. One does not have to take action to care, but education of facts about issues is important.

[myurr]

@Giblet - so why no outrage at the Indian GP? For every person killed by the Bahraini state, 2 are killed every single month in India whilst in police custody. That's 66 people a month, 800 a year. So many more have been killed by the Indian state *since* the Bahraini protests than in Bahrain in total.

Edit: To add a bit more context, since the start of the unrest in Bahrain the state has killed approximately 25-31 people. In the same timeframe the Indian state has killed roughly 198 people in police custody alone.

Another Edit: Also whilst I agree that Al Jazeera does not have a western bias that doesn't mean it is fair and impartial. Indeed the station seems founded upon causing controversy and has come in for wide ranging criticism from a whole host of viewpoints. For example they once organised a birthday party for a Lebanese terrorist who had murdered several Israelis and praised him as a "pan-Arab hero".

I'm not saying that the events that they are reporting have not happened, but will not hold them up as an unbiased source of information just because they are not western.

[andartop]

I don't think there is such a thing as an "unbiased source of information" anyway.

As far as Libya is concerned, a friend of mine managed to email me 2 months after the trouble started and said unfortunately what the western media were portraying was real. Yes, Gaddafi is mad as Jack Nicholson on LSD, and yes, he is still killing civilians.

Plus: "Moammar Gadhafi is said to be hanging out in a series of underground tunnels. That's basically admitting you're evil." –Jimmy Fallon

- STOP PRESS -

Interesting bit of news:

Pakistan: US triple drone strike "kills 18"

link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13663847

quote: Many militants, some of them senior, have been killed in the drone strikes, but hundreds of civilians have also died. The strikes are hugely unpopular among the Pakistani public.

You don't say!

Funny thing is, no one can say the US government killed innocent civilians. First, they were not innocent. In true Judge Dredd fashion these people are tracked, arrested, judged and executed at the same time (now that's what I call efficiency in using tax payers' money!). Second, it was the drones that got them. If an operation like that goes really bad, and ends up with, say, 100 schoolchildren killed instead of 100 "suspects", they can always say it was the drone's fault (stupid robots!).

Problem: robots are getting smarter.

http://www.bostondynamics.com/

The scariest s hh i t I've ever seen on the internet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww

NOW, could we please start a petition to cancel the US GP next year as well?
After all, Texas is the capital of trigger-happy weapons nuts of the world, right? Haven't you watched Bowling for Columbine?

Conclusions:
1. Bahrain is no good.
2. USA no good either.
3. UK = 51st state of USA.
4. India, China, Turkey...no good at all.
5. Compared to all these clowns Belgium sounds like heaven on earth..hell, they don't even HAVE a government to do such atrocities! Let's have 20 races per year at Spa!!!

PS. I just had a little bit of whatever it is that Ciro smokes.

[Giblet]

I don't think what is happening in India is right either, but Bahrain is not a developing country like much of India is and it is absolutely more populous.

The subject is Bahrain, so I am talking specifically about them and their race and their actions.

[Mr Alcatraz]

I've got news for you ringo the police brutalize the --- out of anybody that they feel like in California, especially if they don't think they are being given the proper respect. We have a saying in San Diego:
The Police don't shoot people; they empty their clips into them.
A few years ago a homeless guy was outside a McDonalds and picked up a branch of a tree and started pointing it at people. The cops show up and their telling this guy to put down the branch and lay down. Meanwhile a canine unit pulls up and instead of bringing the dog out in front where the rest of the police are (I think 2 or three squad cars) and let it go and take the guy down if necessary. This genius, against police procedure takes the dog around behind the guy and the Victim (with the branch still in his hand) takes a couple steps forward when he hears the aggressive noise of the dog. and the police blow the dude away. Despite a public outcry by the people that lived in this typical San Diego area actually it's close to the beach. The police action was found to be justified and the cop handling the dog was repremanded [-o<
Thankfully these are rare events and happen about as many times as police are killed in the line of action which is not very often.

There you go, sounds worse than Bahrain, only that it's not being reported world wide on CNN.

I know I read this in more detail and was giving a version of events from memory. But I searched for about 15 minutes and this is all I can find about the incident.

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jun/01/news/mn-36406

The parents of a homeless man shot to death by police during a confrontation earlier this year have filed a federal lawsuit alleging his civil rights were violated.

William and Janice Miller's lawsuit alleges that police used excessive force in trying to subdue their son during the Feb. 8 confrontation, the couple's lawyer, George Weingarten, said.

The 42-year-old homeless man, William Miller Jr., was shot by three of five officers who said he lunged at them with a 3-foot-long sharpened stick outside a McDonald's restaurant.

But the Millers contend in their lawsuit that their son was running away from a police dog that was attacking him. --Associated Press

It was 2000 I guess it's old news. I tend to under estimate the amount of time passing by in my old age

[ringo]

BAGHDAD -- As Bahrain's reformist crown prince headed to Washington on Monday for top-level talks, official news media in the Gulf state stepped up a drumbeat of anti-American attacks, some even accusing of the U.S. administration of colluding with opposition leaders they claim are trying to overthrow the state.
Al Wasat, the onetime opposition paper now under direct control of the Sunni minority government, carried an editorial with possible racial overtones Monday that claimed that "American black fingers are aiming to weaken the Gulf" states so the U.S. can create its own "Greater Middle East."


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/06/06/2 ... z1OXvHL8gw

These Bahrainis are racist too. God damn! Lewis can't miss this one.

Run the race!! Give these fools what they want.

Anyway here's the article and what i tend to agree with.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/06/06/2 ... backs.html

At one point, Shaer asked if the U.S. would leave Iraq more destroyed or more secure than it found it. When Williams said the U.S. was dealing with Iraq as a partner, Shaer retorted: "The countries of the Gulf see this as a dreadful experience. And they do not want this same thing to happen again in any other country."
Then Shaer swung into assault mode. "There are fears among the sects of Bahrain, especially the Sunni people, that the Americans do not deal in a fair way with all the sects." In another question, she said Obama's speech "looked at the Bahraini society from one side."
In her closing remarks, Shaer declared that: "We hope that other countries leave the Bahraini people to solve their problems by themselves, as they used to."


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/06/06/2 ... z1OXxqxYzF

This is deeper than an F1 race. This is Suni and Shiite business. A 2 hour race would be a very weak political tool in this situation.

Frankly i don't care for the image of the country, whether it benefits shiite or Suni. If they can get a race that doesn't seem meddled with politically from the EU or US, then that would be best. Don't want to leave a bitter taste for future races in Bahrain or the rest of the middle east.
The good thing with running the race is the no one can blame the FIA for taking sides. They're just putting on a race at a certain longitude and latitude.

The killing of 31 is actually almost a non factor compared to the suni/shiite dispute. Police kill people everyday, a 9 month old event from a silly fued can't spoil my appetite for a race in that country.

Leave them to their own devices. They don't want outsiders fiddling with their business.

We'll go there

race

then leave.

[myurr]

I don't think what is happening in India is right either, but Bahrain is not a developing country like much of India is and it is absolutely more populous.

The subject is Bahrain, so I am talking specifically about them and their race and their actions.

To my mind though this is typical western hypocrisy where the media focuses our attention on one narrow issue, drums up a whole load of sentiment about it, but utterly misses the big picture. We all care about what is happening in Bahrain and the few people killed there because it is an unusual event in that country and because the media has covered it in detail. No one cares about the plight of the people in other countries where this is a day in day out affair, even though it affects many more people, because it isn't conveniently packaged up as a news story and shoved in our faces.

Having experienced first hand a news story reported in the UK by the BBC a couple of years ago, I have also seen how journalists warp and manipulate events in search of a story and seem willing to invent facts that fit the narrative they wish to push even when directly contradicted by firm evidence, such as CCTV footage. Even when the original story was demonstrated to be false, there is very rarely any kind of interest in correcting the record. They'd already moved on to the next story and didn't care one jot about the careers and reputations they'd ruined.

Singling out Bahrain whilst ignoring the bigger picture of what happens in other GP hosting countries merely fits the narrative being promoted by the media. If F1 is to pass moral judgement on host countries, then by not acting on countries like India, China and Turkey you lend them legitimacy even though their actions demonstrably affect many hundreds and thousands more people year in year out than the special events in Bahrain, as appalling as they were.

We also have no idea of many of the circumstances surrounding the deaths. Looking at the list of casualties http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Bahra ... Casualties what struck me is that these deaths have not been a Tiananmen square style massacre, but a series of small individual incidents over a period of time. I don't know any of the circumstances but I find it easy to believe there were extenuating circumstances in at least some of the killings. This isn't a peaceful region in general and the populace is to an extent armed. Roughly 25% of people in Bahrain own a gun, with the general populace having 180,000 guns between them compared to the 20,000 guns the armed forces and police have between them. This will lead to a culture the police firing on people if instructions are not followed - the whole "stop... stop or I'll shoot... bang" that exists in UK military installations, for example. For all we know some of those killed by police were failing to comply with instructions and continuing to march on police positions - something that, in my mind, would legitimise the police opening fire.

Does that make the deaths any more palatable? No of course not. But equally I don't believe that the protestors were all peace loving hippies that just wanted to hug people and that all the police were brutal and evil, as the media seem to like to portray. It's definitely not a black and white issue.

Finally, assuming that F1 is to be used as a moral / political tool to signify which world regimes we feel all cosy with, I doubt it would even be that effective. Bahrain losing it's GP is a one off story that would attract some publicity to the region for a couple of days before the media moves on and gets all worked up about something else entirely. By staging a GP there every year it means there would be annual interest and media scrutiny of the country, and an increased likelihood of stories being reported throughout the rest of the year. Would Bahrain be under such media scrutiny now were it not a GP hosting nation?

By hosting GP in these countries it will bring western morals and media scrutiny to them, helping to spread human rights rather than justifying evil regimes. Take their GP away and whilst the royals may sulk for a couple of days, in time Bahrain will slip off the medias collective radar and future incidents won't make their way to your TV screens.

[FW17]

I don't think what is happening in India is right either, but Bahrain is not a developing country like much of India is and it is absolutely more populous.

The subject is Bahrain, so I am talking specifically about them and their race and their actions.

To my mind though this is typical western hypocrisy where the media focuses our attention on one narrow issue, drums up a whole load of sentiment about it, but utterly misses the big picture. We all care about what is happening in Bahrain and the few people killed there because it is an unusual event in that country and because the media has covered it in detail. No one cares about the plight of the people in other countries where this is a day in day out affair, even though it affects many more people, because it isn't conveniently packaged up as a news story and shoved in our faces.

Having experienced first hand a news story reported in the UK by the BBC a couple of years ago, I have also seen how journalists warp and manipulate events in search of a story and seem willing to invent facts that fit the narrative they wish to push even when directly contradicted by firm evidence, such as CCTV footage. Even when the original story was demonstrated to be false, there is very rarely any kind of interest in correcting the record. They'd already moved on to the next story and didn't care one jot about the careers and reputations they'd ruined.

Singling out Bahrain whilst ignoring the bigger picture of what happens in other GP hosting countries merely fits the narrative being promoted by the media. If F1 is to pass moral judgement on host countries, then by not acting on countries like India, China and Turkey you lend them legitimacy even though their actions demonstrably affect many hundreds and thousands more people year in year out than the special events in Bahrain, as appalling as they were.

We also have no idea of many of the circumstances surrounding the deaths. Looking at the list of casualties http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Bahra ... Casualties what struck me is that these deaths have not been a Tiananmen square style massacre, but a series of small individual incidents over a period of time. I don't know any of the circumstances but I find it easy to believe there were extenuating circumstances in at least some of the killings. This isn't a peaceful region in general and the populace is to an extent armed. Roughly 25% of people in Bahrain own a gun, with the general populace having 180,000 guns between them compared to the 20,000 guns the armed forces and police have between them. This will lead to a culture the police firing on people if instructions are not followed - the whole "stop... stop or I'll shoot... bang" that exists in UK military installations, for example. For all we know some of those killed by police were failing to comply with instructions and continuing to march on police positions - something that, in my mind, would legitimise the police opening fire.

Does that make the deaths any more palatable? No of course not. But equally I don't believe that the protestors were all peace loving hippies that just wanted to hug people and that all the police were brutal and evil, as the media seem to like to portray. It's definitely not a black and white issue.

Finally, assuming that F1 is to be used as a moral / political tool to signify which world regimes we feel all cosy with, I doubt it would even be that effective. Bahrain losing it's GP is a one off story that would attract some publicity to the region for a couple of days before the media moves on and gets all worked up about something else entirely. By staging a GP there every year it means there would be annual interest and media scrutiny of the country, and an increased likelihood of stories being reported throughout the rest of the year. Would Bahrain be under such media scrutiny now were it not a GP hosting nation?

By hosting GP in these countries it will bring western morals and media scrutiny to them, helping to spread human rights rather than justifying evil regimes. Take their GP away and whilst the royals may sulk for a couple of days, in time Bahrain will slip off the medias collective radar and future incidents won't make their way to your TV screens.

That is a lot written out of context.

Bahrain has an autocratic ruler where basic rights, the freedom of speech and self governance is not a option for the people. How is any of this relevant to India? Can you also provide any document on accounts of people killed in police custody? If you are against the Indian GP pls do not use misrepresented facts to claim your case