Exhaust blown diffusers and FIA restrictions/ban

[andrew]

So why was the DD of Brawn, Toyota and (I think) Williams legal from the start of the season?

[BreezyRacer]

So why was the DD of Brawn, Toyota and (I think) Williams legal from the start of the season?

Just my opinion but I believe that Brawn has "undo" influence with the FIA. I think that one reason this diffuser rule is being instituted is because the Merc team haven't been able to come to terms with it. Interesting because McLaren have been able to make good use of it. It seems there is little technology exchanged between those two teams, despite using the same lump.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

So why was the DD of Brawn, Toyota and (I think) Williams legal from the start of the season?

Just my opinion but I believe that Brawn has "undo" influence with the FIA. I think that one reason this diffuser rule is being instituted is because the Merc team haven't been able to come to terms with it. Interesting because McLaren have been able to make good use of it. It seems there is little technology exchanged between those two teams, despite using the same lump.

I think the flexing wing would have been banned by now if that is the case.
More the case of Cosworth powered teams being unable to match Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari in the "exhaust wars". Just my opinion

[PlatinumZealot]

So why was the DD of Brawn, Toyota and (I think) Williams legal from the start of the season?

The DDD couldn't be construed to have broken any rules in 2009 IMO. More of a geometric trick than anything else. You can align it wit the gills on the Mercedez W02.

[godlameroso]

I don't have a quote but I remember Brawn himself saying that EBD's had the potential to create more downforce than the DDF cars.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Indeed, the DDD was never illegal, and it was simply formally declared legal a few races in.

The EBD situation is alot different. The debate is whether blowing the aero with exhausts constitutes as moveable aero dynamics. With a regular exhaust setup the answer would be no, it's just a healthy side effect of having hot gases blowing over the body work when the throttle is open. But actively controlling the throttle position to generate additonal exhaust flow outside of the drivers control, that in my book is no different to the "fan car" Brabham all those years ago.

So to clarify. Positioning exhaust exits to blow exhaust gases over the body work to produce down force is legal. Generating additional exhaust gases on purpose to generate downforce? That's illegal.

As in the past, what will happen will essentially be a clarification of the existing rules. No rules are being changed, they are just deeming that the engine maps in question break the current rules. No existing results will be changed, as cars are deemed legal on a per race basis - with the exception of skullduggery.

[u401768]

I think the fact that when Ferrari, which was then followed by everyone else, removed the exhaust from blowing the diffuser in 2002, as in introduced a big areo centre move with the on/off throttle is going to be in the mix.

As they are now learning how to really get to grips with the hot blowing, this has removed the areo centre move there for you can only say it is an active areo device......so against the rules as they are currently written.

I would think the bigger danger is that one off the Cosworth teams protest the EBD and its found to be illegal and all the results get thrown out for the teams that used it.... The FIA have a history off if you try to fight the change, they hit you 10 times harder to show who is the boss

[PlatinumZealot]

In my view the striking point is that the aerodynamics of an EBD car are variably controlled by an on board computer system and or the driver.

[ecapox]

so does letting off the gas pedal also consist of moveable aero devices? When the driver lets off the throttle, the car slows and therfore the air going over the wings and under the car is also slowed....

[myurr]

so does letting off the gas pedal also consist of moveable aero devices? When the driver lets off the throttle, the car slows and therfore the air going over the wings and under the car is also slowed....

That's not the primary function, and the 2012 rules aim to reduce these secondary effects.

What the FIA are objecting to, quite rightly in my view, is the computer applying throttle when the driver has lifted off to change the aerodynamics and handling of the car.

[hardingfv32]

Is this such a big deal for performance in the corners? The cars are off throttle during braking and I know there is some breaking into the turns, but once off the brakes they are back on the throttle. Maybe not 100%, but certainly out of the off throttle mapping regime.

Brian

[ianwit]

Hmmm methinks they doth protest too much, I did wonder why Horner stopped whining about a deficit of power to the Merc engine.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92341

[Ferraripilot]

Regarding the new exhaust exit area 330mm back from the rear wheel centerline: could this assist in the return of a type of super-diffuser?

Simplified: Must the exhaust pipe retain the shape of a traditional circular pipe the entire route, or may it mold to the shape of something else, essentially adjoining to that component and eventually molding back into a circular pipe exhaust exit as specified. There are regulations on the size/volume of the diffuser, but if the exhaust pipe itself (in the form of a molded muffler type device) takes place of the roof of the diffuser, then by definition the ceiling of the diffuser is no longer just a diffuser, but rather a part of the exhaust (molded muffler) by which there is no definitive volume set forth. Think of a diffuser with a portion of the ceiling cut out and replaced with an metal box structure (acting as the exhaust) for which there is no applied regulation as the metal box structure has no rules governing its size or purpose other than that it must exit in the form of a circular pipe (which eventually it can) and have a vert cut-off.

It sounds a bit convoluted but I see it somewhat as a way to bring back the super-diffuser if there is no clear definition to what the 'pipe' is allowed to do between the engine and the circular bit it must exit from.

[bill shoe]

Is this such a big deal for performance in the corners? The cars are off throttle during braking and I know there is some breaking into the turns, but once off the brakes they are back on the throttle. Maybe not 100%, but certainly out of the off throttle mapping regime.

Brian

@ Brian, I also think the ban (as stated in the press) would not be a big deal. It would reduce grip during braking. Braking is important to overtaking, but it's a relatively small contributor to overall laptime performance. The RB advantage is biggest at places like Spain where the medium-speed corners go on forever.

Earlier this season it was revealed that several F1 teams use detents toward the end of the throttle pedal travel to activate KERS output. Clever.

A detent could be added at the beginning of the throttle pedal travel to activate the blown diffuser while adding, say, 2% torque. This would allow the driver to consistently blow the diffuser during braking while adding a bit of torque to comply with the new FIA regulations. Pushing through the detent would put the pedal into the "normal" zone where, apparently, blowing will still be unregulated.

Actually this is rather obvious so I assume the FIA is also attempting to ban this workaround. I think enforcing the direct intent of the rules (no blown diffusers) plus banning all the conceivable workarounds will lead to complex and vauge rules.

So far these new rules have been kept secret from the public, but don't get me started on that. I'll refrain from pushing through my personal complaint-limiting detent .

[747heavy]

......
A detent could be added at the beginning of the throttle pedal travel to activate the blown diffuser while adding, say, 2% torque.
.........

5.5 Engine throttles
5.5.2 Designs which allow specific points along the pedal travel range to be identified by the driver or assist him to hold a position are not permitted.