Mercedes GP W02

[marcush.]

the gap was 1.1sec in the detection zone according to Haug and the final gap was 4tenth or something...so really he had closed the gap towards the flag.so near but yet so far.
Schumacher was 7 tenth quicker than Webber in lap 70 closing the gap to 4 tenth final...so he made up all that time after the detection zone without the use of DRS AND posted his quickest time of the race as well in lap 70..on tyres having covered 17 laps...so it was like mandrake said No issues with overheating rears.

[dren]

Well. I reckon that you have a lot to learn.

I certainly do! Marcush, X(when he behaves), 747heavy(a great gentleman, read his posts!), Scarbs (if in doubt ask Scarbs ), shelly et al, all fantastic posters I learn a great deal from.

Red Bull have said that it is corners where the lack of EBD would have an efect

How can they say that when EBD's havent been banned in 2011, but off throttle blowing has? You are suggesting "there is a lack of EBD's"? Are they really useless now that off throttle blowing will be banned from silverstone? I think everyone on this page will have a chuckle if you believe that.

I think what G is correctly saying is...under the new 10% on off-throttle rule...most of the EBD downforce will be produced at 100% throttle...aka straights...for the the slower corners since there will be no more than 10% gas flow off-throttle so there will be no benefit by using EBD. For the medium to high speed corners the EBD's effectiveness will be reduced since now you cant cold blow it even though your throttle isn't 100% in the fast corner. EBD will still have some utility in the fast corners, just reduced.
Evil I think you got caught up in the English of the quote above...which by the way is correct

How do they cold blow the exhaust in fast corners if the driver is still calling for engine power? Cold blowing just uses the engine as an air pump with 100% throttle and no spark. This I would expect to be used under braking. You don't get the expansion of gas from cold blowing, and thus it's less energy, but you do get air pumped through the exhaust. You also do not use any fuel when doing so.

EBD will be effective in slow corners as soon as the driver is on the throttle. This could slightly change slow corner approach depending on the benefits. Slower into the corner, sooner on the throttle maybe?

[dren]

the gap was 1.1sec in the detection zone according to Haug and the final gap was 4tenth or something...so really he had closed the gap towards the flag.so near but yet so far.

I'm just saying that if the second DRS straight didn't exist, Schumacher would have been closer and able to use his DRS in the next lap to stay close. I think Schumacher would have finished 3rd if that was the case. I don't think he had a chance to catch Button either way.

[shelly]

Ah I expected something like this. I just wonder where those letters come from?
ScZ? Ts Ts Ts…
Your figures make sense then.
However I still believe that the wing should be close to ground as soon as possible. Let’s say somewhere between 180-250km/h. How much downforce increase can the wing get in ground effect? I expect around 20% can be possible?

S stands for surface, and cZ for coefficient in the Z direction. I did not put pedices maybe Scz is clearer.
Agree that the wing should be close to ground as soon as possible. I do not know what downforce enhancement can be obtained, 20% seems reasonable.

Of course a flexi behaviour will be more evident on straights, when downforce is not necessary (except on straight braking); that is why I wanted to know if anybody has some screenshot of the w02 taken frontally on the straight after the hairpin.

[mantikos]

I think what G is correctly saying is...under the new 10% on off-throttle rule...most of the EBD downforce will be produced at 100% throttle...aka straights...for the the slower corners since there will be no more than 10% gas flow off-throttle so there will be no benefit by using EBD. For the medium to high speed corners the EBD's effectiveness will be reduced since now you cant blow it even though your throttle isn't 100% in the fast corner. EBD will still have some utility in the fast corners, just reduced.
Evil I think you got caught up in the English of the quote above...which by the way is correct

How do they cold blow the exhaust in fast corners if the driver is still calling for engine power? Cold blowing just uses the engine as an air pump with 100% throttle and no spark. This I would expect to be used under braking. You don't get the expansion of gas from cold blowing, and thus it's less energy, but you do get air pumped through the exhaust. You also do not use any fuel when doing so.

EBD will be effective in slow corners as soon as the driver is on the throttle. This could slightly change slow corner approach depending on the benefits. Slower into the corner, sooner on the throttle maybe?

got my blowing mode wrong...fixed above...
I agree, it would lead to a throttle dance mid corner to blow the diffuser...should help MS with his years of experience with cars that needed that kind of throttle dancing from prior years

[Byron R]

Purely speculation , but Mclaren were horrible last year at silverstone when they first tried EBD. It appeared to me they had throttle off oversteer. More so snap oversteer. With the reduction of EBD flow in off throttle, I would think RB , Mclaren, and Ferrari will all suffer massively. If I remember correctly Hamilton was loosing the back end ALOT that weekend. I think in that race Hamilton and button raced with completely different setups one opting for and one without EBD.
Mercedes might be in the best position to take over if the other teams don't come with a new setup.

[Formula None]

What are the tubes for? Cooling?

[xpensive]

You cannot just change from push to pull rod without a whole new set of problems.
Basically, the change would take alot of resources for no guaranteed benefit.
...
These 2 things could give them 0.5 seconds a lap. Then you can start to tinker with your suspension.

Well JET, when I think it's safe to say that you have lost our wager about an MGP win before Germany, how about another one?

If I bet that MGP will have their rear suspension completly redesigned by Bob Bell before end of the season, what say you?

[Formula None]

[hardingfv32]

In years past the tubes were for Schumacher's bad back. They are/were adjustable air bags.

Brian

[hardingfv32]

Looking at the front upright, has anyone ever done a survey about what they are keeping track of with all the sensors.

1) Could the center electronic model be some sort of fiber optic converter?

2) What are the sensors near the steering arm on top?

3) What about the red sensor at the bottom with 4-5 cables near it?

4) Can I assume most of the brake sensors are with the caliper in the rear out of our view?

Brian

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Well JET, when I think it's safe to say that you have lost our wager about an MGP win before Germany, how about another one?

If I bet that MGP will have their rear suspension completly redesigned by Bob Bell before end of the season, what say you?

Well I'am indifferent X,

I'll just say that they know they can gain alot by solving the cooling issues. More effiicient aero, and I think a bit more power. What benefit is there on fuel efficiency I wonder?

As for the suspension, what does a "complete redesign" entail? Pull to pushrod? A few ball bearings?

[Med4224]

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 61501.html

Brawn says that the reason they're not successful this year is because they don't have a strong technical team to compete with the front-runners. He states that they are working on that, and a new team will be put for the 2012 car. They won't give up on this year though.

He also says that there was a conceptual error with the W02 and that they should have went a different way. The rear-tyre wear is due to the short wheelbase.

I guess it is time for the German engineers to flood the team.

[marcush.]

you say a complete repackaging and change of concept this season? I really doubt this .
Mercedes have not done anything spectacular in terms of changes in the last two years and also as BGP they seemed reluctant to make changes.
So to me they are :
quite conservative
stick to their decisions longer than one would expect (retain Schumacher,retain Bigois,keep their front wing design etc etc)

closer to their target than all of us could expect after the desastrous seasons start.

I think they will introduce not more than a redesign of their rear suspension actuation (leverage installtion stiffness) and concentrate on optimising their sidepod inards.
you also have to see they are quite clever in selling their performance or better lack of it.Just when it seems unbearable a highlight is removing the clouds ...

who in Daimler should that be? I don´t think anything on Daimlers or AMGs plate has any significant relevance to Formula 1.

What is very clear:to commit to a short wheelbase car -when everyone else is stretching theirs needs a good set of reasons laid out to the decisiontakers.So these who took the decision were not in a position to decide-lack of knowledge -filtering ,whatever and those who proposed the idea where not grasping the full implications ,or the car is mega ,the idea is good but mercedes does not have a clue.

To fit a spacer in the car should not be a big issue..so why not do a test in Fp1 and two on a friday and compare the two options ...There is no Championship on the plate this year but an answer to be found which could be very very important now for decisions to be taken for 2012 and if it turns around the w02 to a tyre conserving beast ,maybe we see a second wind for Mercedes.Of course the spacer placement is notz so easy as you need to retain the weight distribution and there is some installtion stiffness loss to be considered.

[xpensive]

Well JET, when I think it's safe to say that you have lost our wager about an MGP win before Germany, how about another one?

If I bet that MGP will have their rear suspension completly redesigned by Bob Bell before end of the season, what say you?

...
As for the suspension, what does a "complete redesign" entail? Pull to pushrod? A few ball bearings?

I agree it's a bit difficult to identify that, but if we focus on the location, geometry as well as very xistence of the pull-rod itself?

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 61501.html

Brawn says that the reason they're not successful this year is because they don't have a strong technical team to compete with the front-runners. He states that they are working on that, and a new team will be put for the 2012 car. They won't give up on this year though.

He also says that there was a conceptual error with the W02 and that they should have went a different way. The rear-tyre wear is due to the short wheelbase.

I guess it is time for the German engineers to flood the team.

Very interesting mid-season statements from RB, rings almost as an admission of guilt, wonder who is responsible for MGP not having a strong enough technical team, Norb or Ross himself, perhaps Zietche and his board of cheap xecutives?

The short wheelbase being the culprit for the tyre-wear? Perhaps so, when you think about it seems logic that a short and twitchy car should wear tyres more, but what was the incentives to go down that avenue in the first place then?

Where are you, Seg's backwards cousin, here's a field day for you!