2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[xpensive]

neither MrT or MrM has the faintest idea of what they're talking about when it comes to energy efficiency.

Lol, you are a joker, X. Todt managed multiple championships by being clueless about engine technology? Pull another one, man!

So did your beloved Montezuma and Briatore, guess that makes them distinguished engine-gurus then?

@ hecti; Because the I4 was decided by the authoroties of course!

[gridwalker]

WB, why do you seem to defend the I-4 so much?

Someone has to, otherwise there wouldn't be too much of a debate

Personally, I agree with the goals of the project, just not the implementation. However, I am not an engineer, so prefer to lurk and see what I can learn.

Personally, I'm glad that WB is sticking to his guns : this thread would have been a lot shorter otherwise!

[FW17]

WB, why do you seem to defend the I-4 so much?

Someone has to, otherwise there wouldn't be too much of a debate

Personally, I agree with the goals of the project, just not the implementation. However, I am not an engineer, so prefer to lurk and see what I can learn.

Personally, I'm glad that WB is sticking to his guns : this thread would have been a lot shorter otherwise!

The implementation of the new formula I4 was done with costs in mind.

As maximizing engine efficiency is the core for the formula the engine the experimenting of various configuration was pointless, technical think tanks zeroed in on the I4 config as a starting point.

I am sure FIA will allow for engine manufacturers with more freedom for 2014 or 2015 regulations once the engine development has stabilized with not much variation in engine power outputs.

I4 is a safe staring point for all teams, lets not talk sound of the engine etc as most F1 fans are technically inclined and racing is secondary.

[l4mbch0ps]

Most of the arguments against the I4 formula are ridiculous, if you ask me...

I4's can be fully stressed - look at formula atlantic. Those engines weren't even originally designed to be stressed, and they worked out fine with some simply modifications. There's no inherent restrictions of an I4 to being a stressed member.

I4's are not really any newer or older than any other configuration. All of them have been done to death in nearly as many forms as you can imagine. The guy complaining he has one in his '85 toyota pickup, well there's V8's in pickups from way before '85.

I4's can be just as exotic and high tech as any other engine in my opinion, but this is a pretty ephemeral argument in the first place. How about the Hayabusa? How about the WRX? How about the MIVEC Turbo 4b11? These engines will be high boost, anti-lag, direct injection, with both KERS and HERS and developed specifically for racing in one of the most extreme environments available.

As far as the sound goes... that's like a no argument to me... "I don't like how they sound"...

The only reason there's issues here is because we have a diverse group of manufacturers competing in F1. Some of them don't make V8's at all, some of them don't make I4's at all. Right now, Renault has very little technology trickle down, it's purely a marketing exercise - even BMW has had to adapt their power trains to more closely resemble and utilize the technology from the V8 programs.. V8 M3 anyone? The fact of the matter is, to stay relevant to real world technology, F1 needs to move away from V8. Plain and Simple.

[alelanza]

The implementation of the new formula I4 was done with costs in mind.

As maximizing engine efficiency is the core for the formula the engine the experimenting of various configuration was pointless, technical think tanks zeroed in on the I4 config as a starting point...

I think it was a reaction to the whole world foreseeing the worst during/after the crisis, and F1 thought it was better to apologize in advance for being perceived as a resource wasteful sport, so marketing wise it was good to be perceived as being frugal, lean, etc. even if you were in reality wasting more than before just because of the whole effort of switching from config A to B.
Plus, when you say 'technical think tanks' zeroing in on stuff, I think we all remember what happened the last time they came up with a 'fix' to F1's aero problem in 09. And regardless of where you stood on the double diffuser debate, the end result was several millions spent to accomplish nothing.

[xpensive]

...
I think it was a reaction to the whole world foreseeing the worst during/after the crisis, and F1 thought it was better to apologize in advance for being perceived as a resource wasteful sport, so marketing wise it was good to be perceived as being frugal, lean, etc.
....

A very interesting observation Alejandro, the pendelum has swung back as the doomsday-prophets of global warming has been proven wrong. In Sweden, desperate measures were taken a few years ago with GSEK subsidies to the ethanol business, now all that is about to be rolled back as using food-crops for fuel and wasting the rain-forest is not a very good idea either.

There are many xamples how things can go terrbly wrong when technical- and energy-issues are left to politicians to decide.

Politicians such as MrM and MrT.

[FW17]

...
I think it was a reaction to the whole world foreseeing the worst during/after the crisis, and F1 thought it was better to apologize in advance for being perceived as a resource wasteful sport, so marketing wise it was good to be perceived as being frugal, lean, etc.
....

A very interesting observation Alejandro, the pendelum has swung back as the doomsday-prophets of global warming has been proven wrong. In Sweden, desperate measures were taken a few years ago with GSEK subsidies to the ethanol business, now all that is about to be rolled back as using food-crops for fuel and wasting the rain-forest is not a very good idea either.

There are many xamples how things can go terrbly wrong when technical- and energy-issues are left to politicians to decide.

Politicians such as MrM and MrT.

How do you accept F1 without change?

[xpensive]

...
How do you accept F1 without change?

Not sure I got that one , but if a change towards political correctness was absolutely necessary, I think they should have gone to alternative fuels instead, ethanol or methanol, the latter from cellulose waste to make it truly Ralph Naderish.

Perhaps with a splash of nitro at that...

[FW17]

...
How do you accept F1 without change?

Not sure I got that one , but if a change towards political correctness was absolutely necessary, I think they should have gone to alternative fuels instead, ethanol or methanol, the latter from cellulose waste to make it truly Ralph Naderish.

Perhaps with a splash of nitro at that...

So you would accept F1 running on cellulose wasteto turbo and nitro in place of KERS

[HampusA]

Better to go all the way and start running pure electric cars.
It´s the next step for the automotive industry and F1 would be the perfect place to speed up development at.

[xpensive]

...
Perhaps with a splash of nitro at that...

So you would accept F1 running on cellulose wasteto turbo and nitro in place of KERS

Good thinking W, now I want a V8 turbo on cellulose-methanol, with push-to-pass from nitro!

[Pierce89]

Most of the arguments against the I4 formula are ridiculous, if you ask me...

I4's can be fully stressed - look at formula atlantic. Those engines weren't even originally designed to be stressed, and they worked out fine with some simply modifications. There's no inherent restrictions of an I4 to being a stressed member.

I4's are not really any newer or older than any other configuration. All of them have been done to death in nearly as many forms as you can imagine. The guy complaining he has one in his '85 toyota pickup, well there's V8's in pickups from way before '85.

I4's can be just as exotic and high tech as any other engine in my opinion, but this is a pretty ephemeral argument in the first place. How about the Hayabusa? How about the WRX? How about the MIVEC Turbo 4b11? These engines will be high boost, anti-lag, direct injection, with both KERS and HERS and developed specifically for racing in one of the most extreme environments available.

As far as the sound goes... that's like a no argument to me... "I don't like how they sound"...

The only reason there's issues here is because we have a diverse group of manufacturers competing in F1. Some of them don't make V8's at all, some of them don't make I4's at all. Right now, Renault has very little technology trickle down, it's purely a marketing exercise - even BMW has had to adapt their power trains to more closely resemble and utilize the technology from the V8 programs.. V8 M3 anyone? The fact of the matter is, to stay relevant to real world technology, F1 needs to move away from V8. Plain and Simple.

The Atlantics aren't fully stressed. They run engine cradles to give the rigidity they need. I don't think the engines are even semi-stressed in the Atlantics.Besides that's the bottom rung of the ladder. Perfect place for an I4.

[Pierce89]

WB, why do you seem to defend the I-4 so much?

lets not talk sound of the engine etc as most F1 fans are technically inclined and racing is secondary.

That;s true only on this forum. Some of my F1 watching buddies barely even know what a diffuser is, but when I informed them of the future motor plans they said: "will they still scream like a banshee, or will they sound like a street motor. When I told them about halfway in between the two, they were thoroughly disappointed. They loved the WAIL of the current motors. All they know is V8. They don't want an I4. This is the average F1 fan in my opinion. At this forum, we're all just techno-nerds(and I'm proud of it)

[FW17]

That;s true only on this forum. Some of my F1 watching buddies barely even know what a diffuser is, but when I informed them of the future motor plans they said: "will they still scream like a banshee, or will they sound like a street motor. When I told them about halfway in between the two, they were thoroughly disappointed. They loved the WAIL of the current motors. All they know is V8. They don't want an I4. This is the average F1 fan in my opinion. At this forum, we're all just techno-nerds(and I'm proud of it)

Till about 5 years back all engines were V10.

The wail of a the NA engine is great but we were so close to F1 being banned from SPA because of this very disturbing wail of F1 engine. And there was talk that Monza was thinking the same way.

What would have happened to F1 if these 2 European circuits had actually pressed ahead with the ban? EU is known for following trends, what is to say more circuits would not have moved in the same direction? What would have BE done about the banshee then?

BANSHEE SOUND WOULD HAVE DIED LIKE TOBACCO ADVERTS ON A F1 CAR.

[strad]

Personally, I'm glad that WB is sticking to his guns : this thread would have been a lot shorter otherwise

And that would be a bad thing?
Pure speculation and BS at this point.