Red Bull RB7 Renault

[hardingfv32]

Still confusing.....

"By boxing in the pillars of the front wing you can increase velocity under the nose, thus creating low pressure under the nose." BUT also low pressure above the wing. What is the relative pressure under the neutral wing section?

Brian

[BreezyRacer]

Still confusing.....

"By boxing in the pillars of the front wing you can increase velocity under the nose, thus creating low pressure under the nose." BUT also low pressure above the wing. What is the relative pressure under the neutral wing section?

Brian

A low pressure area only has to work on it's surface. It's the surface of the bottom of the nose where the low pressure area is, not down to the top of the wing element. Does that help?

[hardingfv32]

Are the pillars parallel to each other? They are the reason for the low pressure correct?

If so, why is there low pressure only at the top of the box they form and not low pressure at the bottom?

Brian

[BreezyRacer]

Are the pillars parallel to each other? They are the reason for the low pressure correct?

If so, why is there low pressure only at the top of the box they form and not low pressure at the bottom?

Brian

Pressure variations are very localized events. Thus just because you have a low pressure surface somewhere, it doesn't mean in any way that a distant parallel surface is also low pressure. CFD does a good job of indicating just how localized surface pressures are. If you get a chance look at the meshes. That will help you to see just how "shallow" pressure gradients can be.

[PlatinumZealot]

What about flow conditioning? My theory is that the pillars are just keeping the flow that is not directly under the nose, but the flow that is is about 6 inches from under the it - in the ideal position before it approaches the front splitter.

I say that because of the pillar extension goes all the way down to the front wing.

Basically it just keeps the complex wake patterns from the front wing, which are either side of the nose, from interfering with the flow going to the front spliter..??

[horse]

Regarding these think pillars, what about a simple end plate analogy? They kind the turn the two sides of the wing into two separate low aspect ratio wings, perhaps?

[marcush.]

Quite intriguing to see RedBull recruiting electronics hardware engineers and electric wiring technicians ..
It looks like they realised just were their problem areas are ..

[BreezyRacer]

Regarding these think pillars, what about a simple end plate analogy? They kind the turn the two sides of the wing into two separate low aspect ratio wings, perhaps?

Sure that's very likely but all the teams are already adding spats precisely for that reason, behind the front wing and in front of the splitter, on each side. I'm sure it's all carefully designed to try to work together for all the aero goals.

It will be interesting to see if the wide pillars are going to be a regular item on the RB7 or if they are used for tuning. It could be that the RB7 had lower drag numbers with them, but less DF. We really don't know ..

[marcush.]

Rob Marshall of RedBull on current KERS issues .the original interview is published in "The Sun".
http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 61617.html

in short the trouble are homemade and they underestimated the task and compromised KERS availability due to Temperateure and vibration to not affect aero performance.They are chipping away at the trouble though and look forward to solving the issues.
Not much food but ...

[PlatinumZealot]

THey didn't say that was the cause though Marcush. They said one of the batteries are located near the gearbox where it exposed to high temps and vibrations. This was not quote by anybody from RBR.

The mystery is still open.

[AbbaleRacing77]

Heres what redbull is effectively doing to artificially create a diffuser thats almost twice as big as it should be. Ferrari and Mclaren are also effectively doing this yet they are still lacking downforce somewhere else. Ive already mentioned this before but the Red areas in the photo are the areas where the exhaust is getting blown in order to create a artificial barrier. This combined with super high rake creates one giant diffuser. Now... USUALLY general racing principals and common sense tells us that a high amount of rake is not beneficial because fundamentally you want the car to be designed and balanced with a rake that is level for CoG reasoning and a more harmonious suspension setup under motion changes. Normally a car with high rake like this is really badly design and using high rake to compensate for huge amounts of understeer but tends to be snappy mid corner. Red bull have designed there whole car around this super diffuser so that the car and aero are designed to be tilted way up in the air, making this whole crazy diffuser work well with there package. Kinda cool

[marcush.]

THey didn't say that was the cause though Marcush. They said one of the batteries are located near the gearbox where it exposed to high temps and vibrations. This was not quote by anybody from RBR.

The mystery is still open.

"Dazu kommt, dass Technikchef Adrian Newey die volle Konzentration auf die Aerodynamik fordert. Aus diesem Grund baute man die KERS-Batterien im Bereich des Getriebes ein, wo sie zwar die Aerodynamik nicht stören, aber hohen Temperaturen und Vibrationen ausgesetzt sind."

hm ..not really clear if this is opinion of the writer or what Marshall said ,you are right.At least the author is thinking that these two areas are the main concern.

Tbh I think so too ...Failures in electronics rarely have not one of these two causes contributing heavily to the failure profile...maybe the issues could be solved by better process control or other technical solutions better suited for the environment ..but I doubt the system shows the failure patterns when tested in the lab.
for comparison .-the original sun interview -no word about temps and vibrations ..
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... crets.html

[hardingfv32]

AbbaleRacing77

Exactly how does the "super" diffuser use the exhaust flow to its benefit?

Brian

[PlatinumZealot]

THey didn't say that was the cause though Marcush. They said one of the batteries are located near the gearbox where it exposed to high temps and vibrations. This was not quote by anybody from RBR.

The mystery is still open.

"Dazu kommt, dass Technikchef Adrian Newey die volle Konzentration auf die Aerodynamik fordert. Aus diesem Grund baute man die KERS-Batterien im Bereich des Getriebes ein, wo sie zwar die Aerodynamik nicht stören, aber hohen Temperaturen und Vibrationen ausgesetzt sind."

hm ..not really clear if this is opinion of the writer or what Marshall said ,you are right.At least the author is thinking that these two areas are the main concern.

Tbh I think so too ...Failures in electronics rarely have not one of these two causes contributing heavily to the failure profile...maybe the issues could be solved by better process control or other technical solutions better suited for the environment ..but I doubt the system shows the failure patterns when tested in the lab.
for comparison .-the original sun interview -no word about temps and vibrations ..
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... crets.html

What is interesting to me is that the article makes it sound like there is a second battery!

[PlatinumZealot]

Heres what redbull is effectively doing to artificially create a diffuser thats almost twice as big as it should be. Ferrari and Mclaren are also effectively doing this yet they are still lacking downforce somewhere else. Ive already mentioned this before but the Red areas in the photo are the areas where the exhaust is getting blown in order to create a artificial barrier. This combined with super high rake creates one giant diffuser. Now... USUALLY general racing principals and common sense tells us that a high amount of rake is not beneficial because fundamentally you want the car to be designed and balanced with a rake that is level for CoG reasoning and a more harmonious suspension setup under motion changes. Normally a car with high rake like this is really badly design and using high rake to compensate for huge amounts of understeer but tends to be snappy mid corner. Red bull have designed there whole car around this super diffuser so that the car and aero are designed to be tilted way up in the air, making this whole crazy diffuser work well with there package. Kinda cool

I think BMW designs it's road cars with a heavy rake. Cadillac and Chevrolet as well. SO I guess those manaufacturers thought a COG raise of a cm or two is not so detrimental when you get such a benefit in high speed stability.



With a middle engine car the raise is COG height is gonna be a bit more as expected but hey Newey made it work! I want to see if this is the next "fad" for 2012.