2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[munudeges]

Those bitching about "road car relevant" should turn to DTM, BTCC or Nascar, F1 should not compete with that.

There's a pretty easy way to make F1 road relevant. You open up the engine formula to a lot of different options and research and development avenues - allow normally aspirated engines, turbos, diesels and provision for an electric option in the regulations. Of course that means that Mosley's mates at Cosworth will go bye, bye but other manufacturers would then come in and fill the void. The turbos in the 80s came about because of a provision in the regulations that Renault took advantage of and that no one else really took seriously.

This whole I4 thing is real rubbish. You can't push forward meaningful development by mandating a homologated engine that will stay static.

[rjsa]

If f1 wants to be sexy, then they need a sexy engine...
look no further than this great piece of engineering beauty
(WB, please notice the 10 cylinders in a v arrangement, no scrawny 4 banger turbo here)



I would like nothing more than to see v10s and even v12s back in f1, maybe not 3.5 liters like this alfa unit but 2.4 (or even 2.5, 2.6, 2.7... just to change things a bit)

Ooohhh dear lord I drove a 164 (3.0 V6) for a couple of years and that b**** screamed like a banshee... and had the lovely chrome horns, a beautiful engine, no gray plastic box.

[xpensive]

@ munudeges;

Give it a name, but I have always thought a straight fuel-formula-only the right way to go for F1, just like in real life?

[djos]

@ munudeges;

Give it a name, but I have always thought a straight fuel-formula-only the right way to go for F1, just like in real life?

Agreed, give them a max fuel tank size.

I'd also mandate that each engines bill of materials cant be more than $250,000 and let them go to it - in addition mandate a max yearly engine supply cost of $10,000,000 that'll stop folk from using unobtainium and allow 1 engine per weekend for 20 races.

Maybe add in a max yearly dev budget of $20,000,000 per manufacturer or equiv resource restriction and F1 would be F1 again before as it was before mad Max started forcing the engines to be shrunk in size using "safety" as his battle axe.

[andrew]

There comes a time when you [WB] just need to let go of something... It seems most people are against the new engine formula, myself included, so i think we should all move along and hope that the v8 has a couple more years before we see some ridiculous fuel saving formula, unless the fia rule makers decided to bring back an unlimited engine formula that only limits the amount of fuel allowed in the race, no flow limit, no required #of cylinders, maybe just a 2.4liter capacity limit. bring back engineering creativity and diversity

Best idea I have read in this entire thread. =D>

F1 is meant to be about finding innovative engineering solutions to a race situation. Every time I hear a radio transmission telling a driver to save fuel or turn down the engine, the F1 fan in me cringes. That is not F1 racing, it is an economy run.

As for the relevance to road cars, lets put that to bed as it is generally rubbish IMHO.

The Lotus 72 (1971 - 1974) produced 440bhp. Nearly 40 years later, the cheapest car that I can think of that produces anything close to that power is the Audi RS5 quattro (444bhp). And a bog standard version of the Audi A5 ain't cheap! So is road car technology 40 years behind F1 then?

What exactly has F1 contributed to road car technology? This is often mentioned but I have to see it backed up with examples. I had thought active suspension but that was on the go as early as 1987. Early versions of regenerative braking systems (KERS) have used on trams since the 1900's. Hardly new is it(?) I mention KERS and active suspension as I thought these were pioneered in F1 but a bit of research and it turns out they were not.

[machin]

bring back an unlimited engine formula that only limits the amount of fuel allowed in the race, no flow limit, no required #of cylinders, maybe just a 2.4liter capacity limit.

In an "ideal" world this sounds great, but what stops one team spending loads and loads of money on the subject, driving everyone out of the sport... then you're left with a single engine "spec" formula!!!

And before anyone says "budget limit" -I personally don't see how budget limits work. What stops a team calling on their "road car arm" to develop the next fan-dangled turbo, whizzy wot-sit which "just happens" to fit perfectly on the F1 car engine????!!!!

[Giblet]

This is not a national issue, it's an engine configuration.

[FW17]

I still cant understand people arguing to keep the current engines beyond 2012.

F1 fans in a love affair with current V8 s are no different from NASCAR fans, a series that still runs on carburetor fitted V8 s. pls move on guys f1 engines are getting boring as there is nothing new to talk about.F1 has been on a stagnant engine development curve since 2006. That is 7 years at the end of 2012. The only way to end this is by a new engine programme.

I also understand the argument of V6, when they were discussing it for 2 years, why did people like whipedmarsh keep quiet? This sounds like ferrari and bernie voting on bahrain issue at the WMSC only to come out and bitch about it. All this is just political, hate that side of F1, and cant believe that all we guys are arguing on this subject.

[munudeges]

Give it a name, but I have always thought a straight fuel-formula-only the right way to go for F1, just like in real life?

Even better. You've got X amount of fuel for a race (or Y amount of energy), do whatever you want with it. Much simpler as well.

[astracrazy]

I see in gp week there is an article regarding the new engine formula and the teams are still in the dark regarding the lack of clarity. It goes on to say at the moment there is no limit on the amount of money each supplier can spend making this new engine.

It has to be worth a thought, if there was none - surely Cosworth would lose out badly?

How long will it take for them to design, build, test, improve the engine? Surely any loose ends would be pretty much tied up by now?

[alelanza]

Those you call motorheads are those who go to the track for the show, not the acronyms.

The motor heads pay the bill by going buying tickets and lending their eyes to see the ads during race broadcasts.

So the motor heads are not the problem, frustrating their expectations is.

This!

Though i wonder why i feel the above statement is refreshing in a MOTOR RACING forum. I mean, it should be refreshing in the Martha Stewart forums, here it should be the norm.

...F1 fans in a love affair with current V8 s are no different from NASCAR fans...

Why should we be any different if we watch for the same reason? cars racing each other.

...pls move on guys f1 engines are getting boring as there is nothing new to talk about. F1 has been on a stagnant engine development curve since 2006. That is 7 years at the end of 2012. The only way to end this is by a new engine programme...

It's not stagnant, it's an engine freeze, google it! the only way to end a freeze is to unfreeze it
And really the past few years, except 09, have been some of the best the sport has ever seen. If you find the best F1 has to offer to be boring simply because the engines haven't changed, then F1 is not for you. What makes you not just follow the sport but also have 423 posts on an F1 forum which you joined over a year ago?
F1's success is about many different things, not just engine changes, but if you like those, don't the LMP1's change engine regs all the time? then follow those! There's a racing series for everyone out there, i struggle to find time to follow more than just a few, but it baffles me that people can't find one they like.

[...]

[strad]

Martin Whitmarsh: “If it were my call I’d probably go for a turbocharged V6. I think more and more (road) cars are going to be turbocharged.”

I could just pull my hair out...How about we give a displacement number and leave the configuration up to the teams?

Racing shouldn't care about green...
Racing isn't green by it's very nature.
It isn't green to waste any amount of fuel running around in circles chasing some grand prize.
If F1 wants to be seen as green they should mandate electric cars and be done with it...Otherwise it's a giant money wasting publicity stunt.
F1 shouldn't have anything to do with environmental agendas.

[hardingfv32]

1) "Each manufacturer could choose what he wants to do. I would also add a restricted budget on the engine development."

Seems a strange position to be free to do what you want but not free to spent what you want. Regardless, if someone makes a wrong choice there goes the competition and show. How about you can spend more the worse you perform?

2) When was the last time Ferrari did anything creative with engines? They build vert restricted race engines. Do they have any out of the box type creativity in them? A basic research budget? Is Fiat very creative?

Brian

[Lurk]

1/ Restricted budget is to avoid that a manufacturer goes to F1 and spends twice the total budget of the others to ensure its win.

2/ Fiat builds the 1st commonrail car engine and now sells the best gasoline engine for compact car with their multiair.

[rjsa]

I still cant understand people arguing to keep the current engines beyond 2012.

F1 fans in a love affair with current V8 s are no different from NASCAR fans, a series that still runs on carburetor fitted V8 s. pls move on guys f1 engines are getting boring as there is nothing new to talk about.F1 has been on a stagnant engine development curve since 2006. That is 7 years at the end of 2012. The only way to end this is by a new engine programme.

I also understand the argument of V6, when they were discussing it for 2 years, why did people like whipedmarsh keep quiet? This sounds like ferrari and bernie voting on bahrain issue at the WMSC only to come out and bitch about it. All this is just political, hate that side of F1, and cant believe that all we guys are arguing on this subject.

You miss the point of the argument. At least how I see it. I'm crying out loud to avoid replacing a staganat V8 for a stagnant I4.

From the very beginning I supported a fuel cap and let them run loose. But if that is not possible, please give us something more beefy than the I4. Be it a TT V6, but let it rev a bit.

And as much as I like the budget cap idea, it is a no go. Financial market fails to track the money on open companies properly, let alone private companies or deeply buried R&D depts within big car manufacturers.