Exhaust blown diffusers and FIA restrictions/ban

[horse]

I was under the impression they run a less draggy DRS system than McLaren, at the cost of some rear wing efficiency in race trim. Isn't this the whole "short chord" / "long chord" compromise? Then because you can open the DRS more often in quali that drag reduction advantage is multiplied.

[imightbewrong]

I was under the impression they run a less draggy DRS system than McLaren, at the cost of some rear wing efficiency in race trim. Isn't this the whole "short chord" / "long chord" compromise? Then because you can open the DRS more often in quali that drag reduction advantage is multiplied.

Alright, I thought you were referring to RBR vs "the rest" but you were talking about McLaren, then I see what you mean.

[i70q7m7ghw]

The DRS advantage Red Bull had in qualifying was down to being able to open it more often because they had so much downforce generated from their EBD. Their DRS is no better than anyone elses, Mercedes run a similar cord.

[horse]

Their DRS is no better than anyone elses

I'd have to disagree with you there. Watch Webber and Button chasing Schumacher. You can see the advantage that the RB system has over the McLaren (when open).

[i70q7m7ghw]

It's not massive, certainly not the second per lap they have in qualifying. Otherwise, McLaren would have already copied it...

[beelsebob]

So...

Autosport says changing engine maps between Q and R is banned in Valencia... that could make for an interesting race.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92494

[Mandrake]

Diesel, the flaw in your argumentation is that you think of the Wing as the only DF generating object. However, the Red Bull produces way more downforce than the Mercedes, so when opening the DRS, there is still more DF available to them than to MGP.

I might be totally wrong with this, but RedBull had a blown diffusor without the overrun maping last season, and it was doing good, whereas McLaren had huge problems with it in the beginning. With the ban, the loss of DF should be affecting all the teams in a similar manner, we might see smaller gaps, but I doubt we'll see a new world order.

Also: RBR are already asking for what exactly is going to be changed, I'm pretty certain they have something else up their sleeves......and that is good! Because F1 needs innovation and clever stuff to differ from spec series!

[Lurk]

If autosport article is true then this is a f*cking joke.
Teams already have 4 or 5 engine maps only for the race. How could FIA check that there is any qualifiying map in those...
=D> FIA, you just lose a bit more of credibility..

[astracrazy]

yep it flawed i think.

unless the fia can prove what map is used for what, then how can they police it. also whats stopping a driver changing to another map after completing there hot lap in quali to there race one?

[andrew]

To me there seems to be 2 possible routes to this decision:

1. Entertainment value. MrE makes his money from selling F1 as entertainment. If one driver is pretty much unbeatable due to them being at the top of their game and their car having a few innovative toys, it gets a bit boring for some if they constantly win. Personally, I think it is great seeing someone at the top of their game and driving extremely well but the majority of views want action. The powers that be cannot knobble the driver but they can knobble the equipment. The easiest thing to do is have the FIA review the rules and make a ruling that reduces or even removes the perceived advantage.

2. Other teams are unhappy and are putting pressure on the FIA. Most likely these are the minnows (who probably shouldn't even be on the grid) but there will be input from a bigger team that carries some clout. Going on past performance I suspect a red team and a silver team. Both have openly bemoaned Red Bull’s advantage and don’t seem to have much of an answer. The easiest way to catch up is to lobby the FIA to bad the suspected advantage.

Either way this is a totally stupid ruling but it is obvious that this aimed at reducing Red Bull’s advantage. Surely the FIA should at the start of the season say here are this years rules, we’ll review them at the end of the season and that’s it. Changes like this and the EBD during the season make no sense at all.

[ianwit]

Unless someone knows how the standard ecu works we are all struggling to get to grips with this. I reckon the changes made during the race via the wheel are to retard and advance ignition for fuel saving or speed and the race map is designed for this. Charlie suggests that the more extreme map has to be altered by connecting to a computer and he says that the FIA cannot stop the teams starting the race on the Quali map but it would have to be altered at the first pit stop (to avoid engine destruction) but he reckons this would be far too time consuming to be a viable option.
Remember there is fuel consumption to take into consideration with the extreme maps.

[djos]

and the Fun police strike again!! ever since the FIA started banning interesting tech with lame interpretations of the rules (eg Renault TMD = active Aero!!) F1 has been in a constant race to the bottom of the Hi Tech pile!

[i70q7m7ghw]

Diesel, the flaw in your argumentation is that you think of the Wing as the only DF generating object. However, the Red Bull produces way more downforce than the Mercedes, so when opening the DRS, there is still more DF available to them than to MGP.

I might be totally wrong with this, but RedBull had a blown diffusor without the overrun maping last season, and it was doing good, whereas McLaren had huge problems with it in the beginning. With the ban, the loss of DF should be affecting all the teams in a similar manner, we might see smaller gaps, but I doubt we'll see a new world order.

Also: RBR are already asking for what exactly is going to be changed, I'm pretty certain they have something else up their sleeves......and that is good! Because F1 needs innovation and clever stuff to differ from spec series!

I already said that didn't I?

The DRS advantage Red Bull had in qualifying was down to being able to open it more often because they had so much downforce generated from their EBD.

Their DRS system alone isn't worth a second per lap. It's the fact they are able to use DRS more often than everyone else because - as you said - they have alot more downforce generated from areas other than the rear wing.

They didn't have the overrun mapping at the start of last season, they had it most of the year though. Also their exhausts didn't blow directly in to the diffuser as they do now, so the effect of the blowing was not as great, and did not produce as much downforce.

[i70q7m7ghw]

and the Fun police strike again!! ever since the FIA started banning interesting tech with lame interpretations of the rules (eg Renault TMD = active Aero!!) F1 has been in a constant race to the bottom of the Hi Tech pile!

The engine mappings that blow the diffuser are not particlarly 'interesting tech'. Blowing the diffuser itself is fair game, and certainly not illegal. But turning the engine in to a leaf blower, sorry, not 'interesting tech' at all.

[andrew]

and the Fun police strike again!! ever since the FIA started banning interesting tech with lame interpretations of the rules (eg Renault TMD = active Aero!!) F1 has been in a constant race to the bottom of the Hi Tech pile!

The engine mappings that blow the diffuser are not particlarly 'interesting tech'. Blowing the diffuser itself is fair game, and certainly not illegal. But turning the engine in to a leaf blower, sorry, not 'interesting tech' at all.

Maybe not overly interesting but used in an interesting way.