Senna Movie

Post anything that doesn't belong in any other forum, including gaming and topics unrelated to motorsport. Site specific discussions should go in the site feedback forum.
Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Senna Movie

Post

I'm with JET on this one. If they'd made up the story about the pole side being changed then it would be indefensible. To use film of the same discussion at some other track isn't the biggest crime in the world - far less so than Balestre's continued attempts to decide the title battles in Prost's favour anyway...

Balestre, now there was a "character". To compare him with Mosley would be to compare a crocodile and a shark. Both deadly but one is sleek and slippery, the other a down and dirty fighter. They both allegedly had preferences for a certain German party of the late 1930s - early 1940s too.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

gridwalker
gridwalker
7
Joined: 27 Mar 2009, 12:22
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Senna Movie

Post

Got a source for Balestre's far-right leanings? Just curious ...
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Senna Movie

Post

Nice picture here along with some relevant text:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20183.html

He claimed to have joined the Germans in order to spy on them and, strangely, anyone who could corroborate his story was dead.

A friend and business partner was the publisher of an anti-semitic, pro-Nazi publication (Au Pilori). Although one could put that down to guilt by association if it were the only evidence.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Senna Movie

Post

Senna was always seen as "the bad guy" during my childhood. I saw him as ruthless, arrogant and extremely self absorbed. My opinion has softened over the years (perhaps muted by my dislike of Señor Schumacher) but I could never entirely past my childhood vision of him as the panto villain role currently filled by Alonso.

This movie has changed that.
Gridwalker, You may have just ruined the film for me. IF it is that biased and that slanted,,,,I may not want to watch at all...Your early impressions were the ones that were right..I tire of him being deified.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

gridwalker
gridwalker
7
Joined: 27 Mar 2009, 12:22
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Senna Movie

Post

Strad, I'm having difficulty telling whether your comment is serious or not, so I will just say this; it doesn't deify him, but it attempts to place the way he was portrayed into context.

Although it cannot be said that the film diverges from the premise that Senna was an exceptional human being, it does explain a lot more about the role the man played in the the public consciousness.

Still, if my comments are enough to ruin the movie for you then I doubt you'd have enjoyed it in the first place. If you are willing to give it a shot, it might help you understand the deification that you find so monotonous.
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Senna Movie

Post

I worried that it might be a sycophantic deification film before I saw it and that almost prevented me from seeing it. Oddly, it was SWMBO that decided to go and see the film. We both enjoyed it, if for different reasons.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

User avatar
JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Senna Movie

Post

Nice piece on Ballestre there JAF.

Paints him in a far better light than the documentary or the way my elders remember him. "The best decision is MY decision" quote gives you all you need to know about the guy.
You dont get to be FIA president by being stupid or and idiot. I think Ballestre was a force succumbing into its own power. This was touched on by the piece you kindly posted.

His far right leanings were actually simmering under the surfaces in alot of his meetings and press conferences. Not in subject matter, but more in attitude, posture and mentality.

With that sort of make-up, its easy to see why Senna vs Ballestre was so compelling and even the most ardent Senna haters have to admit, was painfully biased in favour of Prost.
More could have been done.
David Purley

User avatar
Pandamasque
17
Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 17:28
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Senna Movie

Post

JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Paints him in a far better light than the documentary or the way my elders remember him. "The best decision is MY decision" quote gives you all you need to know about the guy.
Aaaand just like the creators of the film you decided to omit a little bit of context here to paint a better picture, to make a point.
"The best decision is MY decision".... "...my decision is...*dramatic pause* democratic vote". That's how it continued (it's in the film). So if that quote tells us anything, it's that the b**tard had a dark sense of humour, nothing else.

So even though they didn't cut that particular bit out of context, with your post you nicely illustrated my gripe with the film.
I think, if you're trying to make a point regardless if it's the right one or not, you don't 'plant the evidence'. It's a good documentary only as long as it's 100% real and not manipulated with. And every side of the story must be told. At least one should try.
'Senna' is a docu-drama by a couple of guys who initially wanted to make a feature film, but decided against it and went for some real footage, which didn't change their attitude to what they were doing at all. They wanted to 'tell the story' as they saw it, in a super-hero Hollywood movie style, but using all period footage.

*spoilers below*
An extraordinary young lad comes to Europe all on his own to race go-carts. All of a sudden he's making his debut in F1 (they actually made it look like Monaco was his first race) and only the evil Balestre (aka mr. Crossbows :lol: ), who apparently hated Senna before he was even born, stops the race just to prevent him from winning on his debut. It's made clear that cars flying off the track while doing laps +30sec slower than on the dry wasn't a valid reason to red flag the race.
Suddenly there's a mention of Senna possibly going to Lotus next year. Right after that thought he's at McLaren fighting for the title with Prost.
So then goes the story of Senna vs Prost (or more like Senna vs the World of F1). Apparently the whole world is against him. And Ayrton "with his love of truth wasn't in tune" with the politics of the sport. (In the original script that line must have been written in cheese).
etc etc etc

Perhaps the only moment where an uninformed viewer would doubt the untarnished holiness of the hero would be the is-it-because-I'm-black kind of moment with Jackie Stewart effectively being told to shut up, because whatever anyone says is frickin' irrelevant to someone who won more poles and races.


It's a great story well put together. But even with very little knowledge of F1 history I have, I didn't buy it for a second. It is not a documentary, but it's good film. If anything it made me search for facts and find out things that I probably wouldn't otherwise.
PS: oh and it has some spectacular scenes that you should see whatever you think about Senna or docudramas, some funny scenes too. And some good very appropriate music.

gridwalker
gridwalker
7
Joined: 27 Mar 2009, 12:22
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Senna Movie

Post

Although I appreciate your point of view Pandamasque, there is a flip-side to what you are saying; although everything you are saying about the way the story is told IS true, the film also contains a lot of footage that the vast majority of F1 fans would have never seen, which goes a long way to countering the darker side of the myth that has built up around him.

A lot of this footage shows the man under the helmet in ways that was impossible before the no-holds-barred media access that we see today. The public perception of drivers at the time was extremely limited by the air-time that it was possible to give them. We are now spoiled by multi-channel access and online information resources, as we now have a way to access much more insider information and commentary than was available before.

In Senna's day, all information was filtered through an editorial process that was extremely limited by the physical constraints of the media available (e.g. column inches and air time on analogue television broadcasts). Thus, in many cases, we would have been presented with the fundamental facts that underpin events without the context necessary to understand them. Typed sentences can take on entirely different meanings when read in different tones of voice, plus videos change dramatically according to how they are edited (as you aptly demonstrate).

Case in point; I had always known that Senna had walked out of the drivers' briefing that was shown in the movie, but I had always pictured it in an entirely different light ... if I had seen that footage at the time, I would have reached an entirely different conclusion about the man, his motivation and his attitude towards the events surrounding that period of time.

Although the movie approached the story of his life in a very rigid and unquestioning manner, it also sought to counterbalance public misconceptions surrounding heavily publicised events that had previously been stripped of context due to the primitive nature of sports coverage at the time ... this film shows a side of Senna I never got to see whilst he was alive, so I think that it is reasonable and natural for me to reassess my opinions. I am big enough to admit that my previous conclusions about Senna had been distorted because of over-dramatised reporting designed to boost TV ratings and sell newspapers.

I have never deified Senna and I don't intend to now : this movie certainly doesn't tell the full truth, but it showed enough for me to see that my preconceptions were also wide of the mark ... the truth about people's motivations and actions is often highly subjective and open to interpretation (just look at F1T race threads) so no movie can be taken as gospel. Personally, I just took the information that I needed to know and then drew my own conclusions; one thing of which I am certain is that my opinion of the man was highly inaccurate, so I revised my opinions in line with the FACTS presented in the movie (but not the narrative).

Now, my stance is somewhere in between my former opinion and that exemplified by the movie; he certainly isn't the sinner that I thought he was, but there is still nothing saintly about him ... however, he possessed a rare humanity that I do not see in other sportsmen : how many other F1 drivers have created a charitable foundation for helping homeless children? None that I can think of.
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."

User avatar
dren
226
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: Senna Movie

Post

I definitely want to see this film. Does anyone know if or when it will be in the States? I've searched torrents but can't find any English subtitles. Is it on DVD yet or still in theaters?
Honda!

User avatar
auto saibot
3
Joined: 15 Apr 2010, 16:44

Re: Senna Movie

Post

i think you have to download movie and subs separately

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Senna Movie

Post

August
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

AHlimon
AHlimon
0
Joined: 25 Jul 2011, 13:09

Re: The Movie Ayrton Senna

Post

So it is a great news. Still I have not seen the movie. How about it was? :o
I am and and I like to reading books.

User avatar
Jeffsvilleusa
0
Joined: 15 Apr 2011, 00:14
Location: San Francisco

Re: Senna Movie

Post

There is a pre-screening of Senna coming up here in San Francisco:

What: 'SENNA' pre-release screening with Director, Asif Kapadia
When: 9:45pm, August 18th. Tickets now available online. https://tickets.landmarktheatres.com/Ti ... eSupport=1
Where: Landmark Embarcadero 1 Embarcadero Ctr, San Francisco, CA 94111 (415) 267-4893

This event is organized by F1 in America and The San Francisco Formula 1 Group

SENNA officially opens in Berkeley and San Francisco August 19th, and Palo Alto on August 26th.

If you are gonna go, let me know- maybe we can meet up!
Box! Box!

n_anirudh
n_anirudh
28
Joined: 25 Jul 2008, 02:43

Re: Senna Movie

Post

Opens on Aug 11 in Australia.But the movie released at the Melbourne international film festival in late July.

Great movie, brilliant music.