Mercedes GP W02

[Adamski]

i have noticed no difference on the race

The rear tires and rear end in general seem to be depicting their races. Unfortunately there is no complete fix for the issue as it is fundamentally wrong.

I'm really-really hopeful, that you're getting it wrong, and in the next few races they will shows us, how to get a potential on a fundamentally wrong car, as you say. I still don't know, if they will start using a Red Bull style exhaust, how it will help this car. Hopefully the back will be much more stable, especially on accelerate as it looks like they are loosing much of the time out of the corner.
(Also the general down-force of the car is a problem, as in the third sector, we can hear MGP drivers lift too much off the gas at the fast left-right-right corner)

[Med4224]

TWO years ago? Ok, now you've changed your argument. What you're now saying is that they've reverted to a previous design, rather than being conservative with how they developed the previous car.

Lets take a look at the BGP01 and the W02 side by side :

Compared to their older cars yes they changed drastically.
I think he is arguing that compared to the current front-runners they are conservative. Which is true, unfortunately.
When they started developing before anyone else and gave many comments that they will be brave in their design. The outcome has been disappointing and Michael said so himself.

As for tyre degradation Ross said after the race that they didn't suffer from it as in earlier races and hinted at upcoming performance updates.

The best thing for the W02 is for it to be used as a test to get on top of tyres and cooling issues for the W03 while retaining their 4th position in the WCC. Falling to Renault would be a big blow.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The car doesnt bear many resemblances. There are some familial traits, but there are too many changes to say theres a direct link.

This year Mercedes will just about consolidate 4th with the W02. The Car is still hard on the tyres and the drivers cannot push hard on the tyres or risk them wearing out too quickly.
The drivers are more often then not in "conservation" mode, but we know there are some very big changes due for silverstone from the pictures of the rear scooped on Thursday.

Now with the exhaust ban on off throttle, it could have a positive or negative effect on the team. I think the order of things will remain the same. But it depends on whos design will be less reliant on the technology.

And as Mercedes blowing the top of the floor from midships near enough, their exhaust energy will be far less "energised" than that of McLaren, or Red Bull. Ferrari Im not certain of, as apprently they dont rely heavily on it. Renault? Well again depends on how their concept can handle the new clarification.

I think we all need to look closely at FPs 1,2 and 3 to get an inkling as well as qualifying, but I think the real tell tale signs will be the first stint of the race at Silverstone.

[ringo]

renault is taking fourth man.
especially with the rule changes.

Heidfeld:

"We will remain optimistic, though because Silverstone is a track with a lot of high speed corners, and our car performs well in these conditions.

"We will also see how the new regulations affect our car, but I think it will have a positive impact for our team."

If shumacher keeps up the poor performances mercedes will fade.

[Med4224]

renault is taking fourth man.
especially with the rule changes.

Heidfeld:

"We will remain optimistic, though because Silverstone is a track with a lot of high speed corners, and our car performs well in these conditions.

"We will also see how the new regulations affect our car, but I think it will have a positive impact for our team."

If shumacher keeps up the poor performances mercedes will fade.

No actually the W02 seems to have the upper hand on Renault.
If it wasn't for Michael's incident today, Mercedes would be ahead in the points.
But generally Mercedes is ahead of Renault in both Qualifying and race trim.

Michael and Nico performed the same. The incident lost the points.

Actually the fact that they were able to get the maximum out of the car is encouraging ahead of some updates.

[marcush.]

too conservative in what?
They have the shortest car by quite a margin,they have a unique solution to the blown exhaust ,they have a unique cooling /sidepod layout,their DRS system looks very clean and effective.

They seem to struggle to improve on their front wing design a bit ...but this could be hinting at them having it very refined already and possibly improvements are hard to achieve.

MGP have chipped away on their issues and it seems they have got rid of the rear tyre degradation they suffered earlier this season.
the big question is if they can retain this behaviour when introducing the ipdates for Silverstone as it looks their ultimate pace is just too slow now.Have others improved or have Mercedes lost some edge finding a balance with their car?

[Pierce89]

too conservative in what?
They have the shortest car by quite a margin,they have a unique solution to the blown exhaust ,they have a unique cooling /sidepod layout,their DRS system looks very clean and effective.

They seem to struggle to improve on their front wing design a bit ...but this could be hinting at them having it very refined already and possibly improvements are hard to achieve.

MGP have chipped away on their issues and it seems they have got rid of the rear tyre degradation they suffered earlier this season.
the big question is if they can retain this behaviour when introducing the ipdates for Silverstone as it looks their ultimate pace is just too slow now.Have others improved or have Mercedes lost some edge finding a balance with their car?

I don't belive they've fixed the tire issues. Nobody had heavy tire wear today.

[Pierce89]

@siskue2005 We've disagreed on things before, but we're in total accord on this one. Yes the car seems very conservative. A short wheel base does not make it an aggressive design. Even the Ferrari seems more aggressively designed. This car seems to only have had small changes in aero. They seem to only change the geometry(how each part is positioned relative to every other piece) but never any aggressive concepts to actually create a large gain. just lightly chip at it here and there. I realize every team chips away at it, but the other teams are knocking off much bigger chips.

@beelsebob The front wing isn't different. they've cut out a small chunk that's it. Other than that you've only mentioned detail changes. I don't see how you can say it's not a very conservative design. The car is not greatly diffrent to last year. They dumped the gimmicky airbox,raised the nose and called it a day. Oh and the level of sidepod undercut has not greatly increased as you implied.

[Adamski]

• Nose cone (as you pointed out) is a totally different shape
• Front wing supports
• Front wing
• Barge boards
• Turning veins
• Level of sidepod undercut
• Sidepod length
• Airbox undercut
• Vestigial sharkfin
• Exhaust position

I'm sure there's far mor than that too... that's just what's visibly different in that pair of pics.

the front wing isn't different. they've cut out a small chunk that's it. Other than that you've only mentioned detail changes. I don't see how you can say it's not a very conservative design. The car is not greatly diffrent to last year. They dumped the gimmicky airbox,raised the nose and called it a day. Oh and the level of sidepod undercut has not greatly increased as you implied.

Apart from the front wing, all you say is limping. You don't need to go too far away, just read the F1technical preseason analysis about the W02.
Some parts of it:
As such, the team decided early on in 2010 to switch their main focus to the W02, resulting in a dramatically different car, launched on 1 Feb at Valencia.

Different from its radical sidepod approach is the switch in the airbox area.

The team had taken the sidepod extremities a bit too far. ---> This is the way, how beelsebob say it's not a conservative design.

[vealio]

I´m pretty fed up tbh.
The car lost 1,7-1,8 sec/lap to Vettel today, that´s disastrous and not acceptable.
If there is no breakthrough at Silverstone, the mission for the rest of season will be to stay in fron of Renault, FI, Sauber and Toro Rosso =D>

[PlatinumZealot]

too conservative in what?
They have the shortest car by quite a margin,they have a unique solution to the blown exhaust ,they have a unique cooling /sidepod layout,their DRS system looks very clean and effective.

They seem to struggle to improve on their front wing design a bit ...but this could be hinting at them having it very refined already and possibly improvements are hard to achieve.

MGP have chipped away on their issues and it seems they have got rid of the rear tyre degradation they suffered earlier this season.
the big question is if they can retain this behaviour when introducing the ipdates for Silverstone as it looks their ultimate pace is just too slow now.Have others improved or have Mercedes lost some edge finding a balance with their car?

Mercedez is too conservative in development during the season. All of their seasons they have lacked that killer instinct to change the development path n an extreme way.

[yener]

Is it allowed to put a longer chassis on the car? Cause if so, they should give both drivers different cars so they can use every race as a testsession.
They could experiment with lots of stuf.

The Redbull are so much faster that MGP needs at least a second to catch up.

If it's allowed, they should try new and longer chassis to find out if its better.
And no, they dont need to redesign the whole bodywork. Just try out a chassis which is 5 to 15 inch longer.

[marcush.]

too conservative in what?
They have the shortest car by quite a margin,they have a unique solution to the blown exhaust ,they have a unique cooling /sidepod layout,their DRS system looks very clean and effective.

They seem to struggle to improve on their front wing design a bit ...but this could be hinting at them having it very refined already and possibly improvements are hard to achieve.

MGP have chipped away on their issues and it seems they have got rid of the rear tyre degradation they suffered earlier this season.
the big question is if they can retain this behaviour when introducing the ipdates for Silverstone as it looks their ultimate pace is just too slow now.Have others improved or have Mercedes lost some edge finding a balance with their car?

I don't belive they've fixed the tire issues. Nobody had heavy tire wear today.

I don´t subscribe to this.
Hamilton was told to conserve his tyres for example..and Renault also seemed to struggle to get decent performance over long stints.

Mercedes had maybe not ultimate speed but in the races before they had dramatic drop off after a few laps and had severe oversteer .Considering the ambient temps this was not happening this time wich is a good sign.
Their lack of outright speed may be a function of the ambient temps?

[xpensive]

If MGP and McLaren really has 50-60 Hp more that the RBR, how good is that chassis anyway?

[marcush.]

the whole hp debate is a myth more than ever and I´m really surprised that well seasoned engineers are prepared to discuss about peak horsepower advantages when your important value is area under the torque curve or even more in laymans terms how sharply your dropoff in powers before and after your hailed peak and what you really pay in terms of cooling needs and fuel consumption to achieve the power curve.
As all engines have scored points and got pole positions in recent time there are two possible answers to this:
the engine itself is not decisive when it comes to overall package performance
or
all engines have similar power

in the end it does not matter as the end result is the same:engine supplier choice is a matter of economics and politics more than performance .
Maybe for some teams the added value of a complete drivetrain package is of course a huge help....see FI who really can concentrate on chassis development as the fit and forget package from Mclaren is supplying reliability and unquestioned performance -something the likes of Virgin,HRT and Lotus completely underestimated when starting out.
Maybe the digging for benz engines was more kers related on RBRs side than we realised back then?