Team: John Owen (CD), Loic Bigois (HA), Craig Wilson (Head of Vehicle Eng. & Dynamics), Russell Cooley (CE), Ross Brawn (TP), Nick Fry (CEO), Norbert Haug (VP), Thomas Fuhr (MD), Rob Thomas (COO) Drivers: Michael Schumacher (7), Nico Rosberg (8)
A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
marcush. wrote:the whole hp debate is a myth more than ever and I´m really surprised that well seasoned engineers are prepared to discuss about peak horsepower advantages when your important value is area under the torque curve or even more in laymans terms how sharply your dropoff in powers before and after your hailed peak and what you really pay in terms of cooling needs and fuel consumption to achieve the power curve.
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I'm not so sure if I agree with you there marcush, with seven-speed gearboxes, it seems that the utilized power-band is rather short in a modern F1 car.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
marcush. wrote:the whole hp debate is a myth more than ever and I´m really surprised that well seasoned engineers are prepared to discuss about peak horsepower advantages when your important value is area under the torque curve or even more in laymans terms how sharply your dropoff in powers before and after your hailed peak and what you really pay in terms of cooling needs and fuel consumption to achieve the power curve.
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I'm not so sure if I agree with you there marcush, with seven-speed gearboxes, it seems that the utilized power-band is rather short in a modern F1 car.
I understand from where you are coming x but just consider the implications of reduced revs or lean engine maps when there is no substance to the powerband you soon are in the deepest mud ...seven gears will not save you.
And as we have learned already there is considerable loss in hp(certainly more than the claimed differnces between different manufacturers) over engine life ..but this seems to be hard to correlate to laptimes or race performance ,at least for me.
The front wing is slightly different. The team has optimized the design over the last few years. Several of the other teams have done the same with their front wings. The nose cone is quite different. The radiator layout and internal packaging is hugely different. The exhaust is also quite different with the length of the diffuser and floor. The rear has pull rods. This car is a big departure from the W01 in design terms. The W01 looked like an evolution of the BGP01. The W02 took a different direction.
Sadly, if there were refuling allowed, I believe the Mercedes would be a lot more competitive as it handles low fuel levels well, when set-up for them. Its high CoG kills it in full race trim.
Last edited by Steven on 30 Jun 2011, 21:24, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:Remove quoted post for readability
From a driver`s point of view with the new regs they`ll lack of DF and this will influence the balance of the car into a corner. Therefore the tyres will slide more and finally it will overcook them and even shortens their life span. Mechanical grip will have now more influence. And I think it will resuscitate some drivers which are not used to drive with EBD. Drivers like Michael ...
atanatizante wrote:From a driver`s point of view with the new regs they`ll lack of DF and this will influence the balance of the car into a corner. Therefore the tyres will slide more and finally it will overcook them and even shortens their life span. Mechanical grip will have now more influence. And I think it will resuscitate some drivers which are not used to drive with EBD. Drivers like Michael ...
This would theory would be great if the W02 had better mechanical grip, unfortunately it's rubbish out of the slow corners. Michael and Nico have to practically be completely straightened out before they can hit the accel.
With the W02 going to Silverstone with new blown floors, I suspect Brawn sees improved performance due to this being a more efficient system, and that combined with other teams already using this EBD system will somewhat pull them down closing the gap further for MB. Anyone expecting any different? I see it as a win all around for MB.
atanatizante wrote:From a driver`s point of view with the new regs they`ll lack of DF and this will influence the balance of the car into a corner. Therefore the tyres will slide more and finally it will overcook them and even shortens their life span. Mechanical grip will have now more influence. And I think it will resuscitate some drivers which are not used to drive with EBD. Drivers like Michael ...
Yes but when the car slides the driver will let off a fart of excitement. This gas will waft up into the airbox giving the engine extra power, counteracting the lack of downforce with extra straight line speed.
Merc has one of the fastest turn-in... But with the lack of rear DF they can't push the throttle much mid corner to exit...
But with the RB style exhaust, Michaels style would benefit as he was really early on the throttle mid-corner...
Now the question is, would the Merc mechanics can easily get the correct setup during race day... I find the team quite slow in getting the setup right compared to the other teams...
But if they get it right (I hope!)... Silverstone would be a good track to test the design with its high speed corners....
I also think they will benefit alot. Firstly less fuel, less weight better CoG. Then no hot blowing less heat in the exausts: less heat under the bonnet, better cooling, less gills->better aero. Better cooling will also come with the new exaust, as part of it will be outside, which less hot exhaust under the bonnet (I think the inner part can be shorter with a RB exhaust).
Then we have less tyre heating with the new exhaust. As it blows under a different position. Which I would say is-was the primary overheating problem. Not the CoF (fuel based), Brawn said.
Also more DF, if they get it right:).
I think the current exhaust position was bad in all conditions, but probably extra bad in low speed. Rb solutions seems to be good in all conditions and Renault solution seems to be good only in high speed.
I really think they will make a big step as they had already fixed the other problems like the suspension, and aero. And they have now some understanding of the tyre, so I hope hey won't disappoint me once more:).
3one wrote:Here's what i think about the new EBD rule:
Merc has one of the fastest turn-in... But with the lack of rear DF they can't push the throttle much mid corner to exit...
But with the RB style exhaust, Michaels style would benefit as he was really early on the throttle mid-corner...
Now the question is, would the Merc mechanics can easily get the correct setup during race day... I find the team quite slow in getting the setup right compared to the other teams...
But if they get it right (I hope!)... Silverstone would be a good track to test the design with its high speed corners....
I could see the team figuring it out quickly this time around. I believe they learned from their mistakes last year and are taking a different approach this time around. The more I think of this, the more I believe W02 will benefit all around for this.
3one wrote:Here's what i think about the new EBD rule:
Merc has one of the fastest turn-in... But with the lack of rear DF they can't push the throttle much mid corner to exit...
But with the RB style exhaust, Michaels style would benefit as he was really early on the throttle mid-corner...
Now the question is, would the Merc mechanics can easily get the correct setup during race day... I find the team quite slow in getting the setup right compared to the other teams...
But if they get it right (I hope!)... Silverstone would be a good track to test the design with its high speed corners....
I could see the team figuring it out quickly this time around. I believe they learned from their mistakes last year and are taking a different approach this time around. The more I think of this, the more I believe W02 will benefit all around for this.
Same here. I always thought that Merc is good at getting upgrades to work. They may not get them out in numbers, but when the bring upgrades, they are usually on the money (unlike Mclaren and Force India. Did I mention Williams? lol)
Mercedes are not doing the same thing they did last year. Last year they were just throwing upgrades at the W01 with getting worse results. When they first introduced EBD last year, it burnt the back of their car! This year it seems that they are not hasty with their development package.
Here's a picture I found from what they had brought to Valencia but didn't race :
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare
I believe the above was just a cooling exit on the sidepod they were experimenting with. Their actual EBD package consisted of sidepods with no 'gills' but rather a large single exit at the back a la RB and Ferrari. I believe Nico tested it
