Flexible wings 2011

[King Six]

So what happened to all of this, I guess the recent tracks haven't made much of it. Will it (the debacle) return for Silverstone?

[ianwit]

If RB dominate Silverstone then the search for their advantage will continue and I reckon this thread will take off again

[Ferraripilot]

I'm waiting to hear what the other teams have to say about it.

+1 that and I don't yet understand why mclaren would want to essentially reduce the leading edge angle of attack with such a wing.

[scarbs]

I emailed Charlie Whiting about the wing movement and what is permitted in this area

"there is no stated permissible deflection of the parts you’re referring to, we do of course have a blanket restriction on any bodywork moving but, in some cases, we define limits given that no bodywork can be designed infinitely rigid.

The slight anomaly you refer to has been investigated and we have told the team improvements need to be made."

[hardingfv32]

Why worry about the whether or not the wing is moving or if the system is legal? How far can this subject go once all the opinions are stated. We do not have access to the facts as always.

Assume it is happening and discuss the benefits and mechanics used to implement such a system. Enjoy it as a chance to learn something possibly new about an F1 car.

Brian

[Daffron]

So the FIA tell McLaren to make improvements to the wing based on tv footage of it flexing, but wont tell Red Bull to do the same? There are countless clips and sliders of Red Bull's wing flexing.

What happened to "if it passes the load test its legal".

[i70q7m7ghw]

Anyone care to source this speculation?

Our eyes? It's pretty obvious, imo.

Not all of us have x-ray vision, but I'll take your word for it, since you can clearly see through the structure of the wing and clarify that it only has a single mounting point on each support pillar.

[i70q7m7ghw]

I emailed Charlie Whiting about the wing movement and what is permitted in this area

"there is no stated permissible deflection of the parts you’re referring to, we do of course have a blanket restriction on any bodywork moving but, in some cases, we define limits given that no bodywork can be designed infinitely rigid.

The slight anomaly you refer to has been investigated and we have told the team improvements need to be made."

So what your essentially saying scarbs is everyone involved has essentially ratted McLaren out? Opps. I guess this isn't their favorite message board in the world, first that goony chap, now this.

[marcush.]

what is striking is the fact that RedBull has a bowing wing that does not work to the spirit of the rules and on the other hand we got Mclaren getting a slash by Whiting with not much evidence ????

This is really a farce and Formula 1 shows its ugly face.It´s not poor Whiting being blind but someone blurring his view towards the bulls..

[747heavy]

please remove

[Just_a_fan]

How could the FIA possibly justify any kind of action against McLaren when the Red Bull wing has been cleared. If it fails the load tests that is a different story, but as far as we know it passes the test, so it's legal.

They disregarded photographic evidence when it came to the Red Bull wing, so they can only do the same.

Red Bull's carbon flexes under load. McLaren's wing mount hinges under load. That's the only discernible difference.

As to how the FIA potentially deal with this, yeah it'll definitely be interesting since, through Whiting, they've publicly stated that passing the front wing load test is all that matters. This will sorely test that stand.

If I were McLaren I'd carry on with this wing and threaten action in a court of law if the FIA require it to be chnaged based on photo evidence even when it passes the test. RBR pass the test and fail the photo evidence but aren't told to change.

I reckon the FIA will just back down because they won't want the hassle.

Still wouldn't be the first time that the FIA has held simultaneous diametrically opposed views on the same subject.

[CHT]

There are no proof that RBR has made their wing flex intentionally (although it is design that way), or else Mclaren or any other team would have easily copied that technique for their front wing.

The hinge technique by Mclaren is simply cheap and lousy copy of RBR flexing wing, which can be easily copied by any other team on the grid.

Maybe FIA has to tweak the rules again to allow others to catch up with the RB?

I am hoping to see some flexing diffuser soon.

[Fil]

Anyone care to source this speculation?

Our eyes? It's pretty obvious, imo.

Not all of us have x-ray vision, but I'll take your word for it, since you can clearly see through the structure of the wing and clarify that it only has a single mounting point on each support pillar.

You're absolutely right. We don't know that it is a single hinge point. Nor do we know what exactly is happening. But we do know there is notable movement of the wing at the point that the wing is attached to the pillars. The video footage demonstrates this. But yes, officially the FIA doesn't tend to use TV footage as a measurable for car legalities. Hence why, as Scarbs has told us, Whiting only privately advised McLaren to make adjustments.

The hinge technique by Mclaren is simply cheap and lousy copy of RBR flexing wing, which can be easily copied by any other team on the grid.

I thought the two achieve absolute opposites.
Red Bull achieve added downforce via their front wing flex.
McLaren achieve reduced downforce/drag via a hing-like wing pillar movement.


I'm leaning towards the theory that by reducing downforce/drag on the front wing at significant speed, it allows for a better balance during DRS deployment.
In doing so, (in quali) this will allow them to deploy DRS earlier in high speed corners (à la Red Bull).

[CHT]

I thought the two achieve absolute opposites.
Red Bull achieve added downforce via their front wing flex.
McLaren achieve reduced downforce/drag via a hing-like wing pillar movement.


I'm leaning towards the theory that by reducing downforce/drag on the front wing at significant speed, it allows for a better balance during DRS deployment.
In doing so, (in quali) this will allow them to deploy DRS earlier in high speed corners (à la Red Bull).

I believe what Mclaren lack at the moment is down force, not so much on the straight line speed.

So I am guessing that with a device like this, they will be able to run an aggressive AoA on their front wing to gain down force and then allow the wing to flex at high speed.

[kalinka]

But they almost never complain on front DF...I always thougth that rear DF is where McL is weak isn't it ? If you can go with more front AoA, then you have to compensate that with rear DF too, for balance. Did we have any evidence of increased rear DF in Valencia ? My theory was in first place, that they didn't use more FW AoA, they just want to shed the existing AoA at high speed. Clearly something I can't understand here