Mercedes GP W02

[dren]

All been said and done before. It's bound to rear its head every now and again though.

Anyone have any thoughts on how the Merc was affected by this diffuser restriction thing? Apparently the Merc engine was given dispensation to keep its overrun allowance but I'm not sure what effect it had on them, if any.

It's hard to say because Merc went with a new exhaust layout at this race compared to their old one. I can only speculate they would have lost more with the old midship layout. Mclaren seemed to be really hit hard by the ban. It looks like Renault took a large hit too, as I expected them to do better on a track like Silverstone compared to Valencia. We'll get a better picture once things are back to "normal" next race. Will this help Merc relative to the competition?

So maybe JET was right about the exhaust heating the rear tires before? I read here that Merc didn't have rear tire issues at Silverstone. The new cooling solution looks better than the gills too. Schumacher could have had 4th or 5th on merrit, he drove an excellent race bar the skirmish. The car looked reasonably stable.

[luca]

If the new exhaust layout really does improve rear tyres wear, then it's a pity they introduced it only now. Why did it take them so long to implement it? McLaren did it in about two weeks. And yes, I know McLaren has more budget, resources, employees, experience, etc., but really 2 weeks vs 3-4 months...
Also, I'm glad they finally seem to have sorted out the cooling issues. Almost no grills on the car now.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Rosberg expects more for nurburgring.

Now the cooling has been sorted, and the hot gasses been directed away from the tyres we can see the W02 is nearing it's early promise.
Mercedes can now add their upgrades as promised once cooling and tires had been addressed.
I'm wondering if we will see the team add more rake to the car, in addition to a softer suspension. I saw the car lean heavily in copse and becketts at Silverstone leading me to think they're already running softer suspension settings than before.

I expect Mercedes to have some more speed come Nurburgring, it's Mercedes home race so the upgrade timing is perfect.

As a side note, it also occured to me that mercedes may have more rear down force due to the diffuser and exhaust changes... Does this mean Mercedes will graft the Mk111 wing?

[xpensive]

Rosberg expects more for nurburgring.
...
...and the hot gasses been directed away from the tyres we can see the W02 is nearing it's early promise.
...

Seriously JET, are you saying that the W02's problems with rear tyre detoriation was due to the hot xhaust gasses were hitting them, but it took the team 8 races to figure it out? Good Lord, Bob Bell has his work cut out for him...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

X I refer to my post previous to the last one.

If you have a technical angle, I'm willing to hear it. If your just going to bash, then I'm switching off.
I posted this and didn't pm you because I'd really like to know how mercedes seemed to overcome some of their tyre wear.

Mercedes blowing the top of the floor and then small deflectors helping to wash the hot air in board was rudimentary, do you not think there was some "spillage" with regard to air escaping the catchment?
And by so doing heating the rears more than their competitors leading to faster tyre degredation?

Mercedes have very fast starts, could that be a spin off of the rubber being heated quicker too?

[luca]

Mercedes have very fast starts, could that be a spin off of the rubber being heated quicker too?

Correction: Schumacher generally has very fast starts (Rosberg on the other hand...)
Just kidding, anyway I remember reading an interview with Ross Brawn (posted somewhere in this topic itself) in which he basically said that the good starts were probably due to the short wheelbase and the relative better/faster front/rear weight transfer, or something like that.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

That would appear to be the case Luca.

Although I would say Rosberg starts have been good, he just been unlucky. I'm of the opinion though that at least some hot gas was being deflected onto the tyre adding to tyre wear.

[Adamski]

Rosberg expects more for nurburgring.
...
...and the hot gasses been directed away from the tyres we can see the W02 is nearing it's early promise.
...

Seriously JET, are you saying that the W02's problems with rear tyre detoriation was due to the hot xhaust gasses were hitting them, but it took the team 8 races to figure it out? Good Lord, Bob Bell has his work cut out for him...

I think Mercedes, as a team had deeper problems and that's why it was last for about 8 races to go for a totally different technique. It was Brawn who said about 4 or 5 races ago, that if they solve all their problems (cooling, rear tire issues), they can see if the original exhaust exit is the best way. I think Silverstone proved that the new exhaust position is better. They want to stick to their own development way and trying maximize the package, but in Valencia, we can see there was no problems and the car still slower about 1 - 1.3 second/lap.

[Ferraripilot]

JET hit on some points I was going to address, namely the softer front suspension, although W02 is still running very little rake compared to Ferrari and especially RB (although there running less this). The big victory is with the back end as the car is not going quite as wide and the tires are lasting substantially longer than before. With a bit more dry testing they should be able to optimise the setup even further. Overall I believe it was a very productive weekend.

I believe the reason this EBD system took so long was due to the massive fundamental change to the car design which was required. New floors, new rear sidepod areas, new cooling ducts under the sidepods to direct air to the back, new diffuser, new manifolds. It's a substantial project and not something that can be knocked out very quickly IMO.

I have a feeling their diffuser design is going to be copied as it features 3 outer curved channels for the exhaust and the diffuser roof itself uses a more gradual slope to exit as opposed to Mclaren's which is very much an abrupt steep affair at the back.

[dren]

Yeah, the car is still slower, but it is no longer burning up tires, so they will not have to sacrifice their race strategy as much.

JET, if the rear looked softer, this could help out the tire wear issues and aid with grip. I tend to believe the rear tire issues were more suspension set-up related than exhaust heat related though. Maybe by moving the exhaust towards the rear, the downforce created was shifted further back and is thus helping with traction. I don't know, but a possibility?

[dren]

Anyone have a shot of the radiator inlets? It looks like they went to a single radiator instead of the stacked solution.

[Ferraripilot]

Maybe by moving the exhaust towards the rear, the downforce created was shifted further back and is thus helping with traction. I don't know, but a possibility?

That's precisely how I see it. I believe Red Bull's strategy with this style of exhaust is of course running huge amounts of rake which in-turn makes the diffuser have a larger area/volume? This makes the entire floor leading up to the diffuser sort of a super-diffuser if you will. Someone explain this further as I am not 100% clear on it, but to me because if that is the case then they should indeed be running more rake to take advantage of this as well as throw on that higher downforce MkIII wing they have sitting around.

[Ferraripilot]

Anyone have a shot of the radiator inlets? It looks like they went to a single radiator instead of the stacked solution.

that's what I was wondering!

[xpensive]

X I refer to my post previous to the last one.

If you have a technical angle, I'm willing to hear it. If your just going to bash, then I'm switching off.
I posted this and didn't pm you because I'd really like to know how mercedes seemed to overcome some of their tyre wear.

Mercedes blowing the top of the floor and then small deflectors helping to wash the hot air in board was rudimentary, do you not think there was some "spillage" with regard to air escaping the catchment?
And by so doing heating the rears more than their competitors leading to faster tyre degredation?

Mercedes have very fast starts, could that be a spin off of the rubber being heated quicker too?

JET, I truly love you and your contributions to F1T, but damn you for always taking an emotional and defensive position whenever it comes to Mercedes!

If the reason for their rear tyre problems were as simple as they were blowing xhaust gasses on them, it's simply unfathomable if it took this team 8 races to figure that out! More than that, unfathomable!

[dren]

Just looked at an AMUS article. Not sure how credible those are but they stated a few reasons for the rear tire issues.

1. Short wheel base thus higher fuel tank CoG so more sliding in corners which adds heat to the tires. This sounds reasonable.

2. Rear brake cooling ducts were undersized. The overheating poured into the tires. This sounds like it might have contributed but I would have thought it would have been identified in testing early on.

3. Interconnected front/rear suspension via hydraulics. I guess teams already do this to an extent (front to rear to control lurching/diving) but Mercedes is coupling the front right to the rear left and front left to the rear right. They said Williams tried something similar in 2008 but abandoned it. They state the system is hard to tune but is supposed to keep the tires at the correct angle relative to the ground. There are hydraulic actuators that weigh about 3 kilos mounted above the transmission that take play in this.

4. Exhaust position could have been heating the rear tire sidewalls a bit.