British GP 2011 - Silverstone

[kalinka]

Could it be that they went for a full wet setup? I saw quite a big FW AoA change at Button's pitstop...Maybe that was the explanation of good pace in mixed conditions, while in dry, they suffer more than others. Also it could be the reason for the wrong fuel-calculation too ( though Whitmarsh pointed on traffic on that ). I couldn't find any hard evidence for my theory, just these strange facts...Also I can't remember AoA adjustment for Hamilton...or the cameras missed it...?
@Madly > In wet/mixed conditions the weight of that fuel actually can help keeping the car on track, since the grip is very low, and if more weight presses the tyres against the surface-it means more traction too. It could harm top speed, but in wet-again-it's marginal IMHO. Sure I may be wrong on that, let's hear some better experts than me !

[Paul]

If Webber's own team thinks he is a threat to other drivers, why did they give him a contract? Is it so that he can send Vettel's competitors into walls?

[djos]

Your ridiculous bias negates any argument you have. Webber was hit by Vettel in Turkey, Kovalainen was in the middle of the road and braked about 40 meters earlier than is normal (even in the POS he drives) causing a collision, and Lewis didn't give Webber enough room as noted multiple times by the BBC/SpeedTV broadcasters. Your arguments aren't supported by facts. The fact that Vettel holds a point lead of 80 over his teammate and Red Bull has something like 100 points over the next team tells me that Horner is lying and that it was never about the team, it was about Vettel. Your ridiculous notion about his seat being at risk because of him risking passing Vettel even if he was much faster is moot. The fact that he is not allowed to race Vettel with that big of a WDC and WCC cushion shows that his seat was never worth the paper it was written on and Horner is not good as his word.

For someone to say the things he says below, Horner is a liar and a hypocrite. If he can order Webber to not race his teammate for fear of a collision, and being that Vettel is the only guilty party between the two of them that hit his teammate in a passing maneuver, he could have just as easily told Vettel to move aside to not risk the very same accident he claims would have occurred. Fact is, he was told to stay back for reasons that aren't sound or factual. If Webber can't race his teammate who has an 80 point lead on him, risking his ability to keep second in the WDC for Red Bull, then his contract was never worth anything anyway. I like Vettel, I however don't like Horner lying to the public and Mark Webber to protect him.

Spot on Ray, WB's undying luv for Vettel is once again shining bright, I wonder if he'll manage to avoid a forum holiday this time?

[Poleman]

If Webber's own team thinks he is a threat to other drivers, why did they give him a contract? Is it so that he can send Vettel's competitors into walls?

Because they needed someone to guard the baby boy Vettels back and obey at all times....Discipline....

[djos]

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[Poleman]

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[SiLo]

I would rather see the two crashing out after fighting tooth and nail, than sitting line astern bored as f***. Team orders can suck by b****, it ruins the sport so many times and it is so obvious when it is done that it defies belief.

[Just_a_fan]

@kalinka

Weight is always bad. It may help press the tyres in to the road but it also needs to be turned and stopped and accelerated which dulls performance.

Weight doesn't affect top speed when compared to the drag of the cars. Indeed, if the straight is long enough, two cars of identical drag and gearing but different weights will have the same top speed.

[ringo]

Fanboys live in another world, people.

It's like talking to evangelists: you cannot convince them. Actually, you cannot convince any hardcore fan of anything. It's useless.

By falling into the trap of considering these issues worth of discussion we're allowing this site to become a wish washed version of F1Fanatics. Where is the technical input? Where are the analysis of the RACE, as opposed to the analysis of the behaviour, intentions and capabilities of a few drivers?

It was only me the guy who saw Perez and di Resta driving the race of their lives? It was only me who read what the drivers themselves wrote about the incidents? It's the same argument over and over:

Poster 1: "Hamilton lose again, na, na, na, na"
Poster 2: "Hamilton cannot lose and when he loses is not his fault"
Old timer 1: "Please, people, this is so boring..."
Poster 1: "Oh, yeah? You're the greatest SOB"
Poster 2: "Oh, yeah? Your momma is fat"

How I miss the Fanboy Ying Yang thread being used as a repository of these "posts", no matter which "side" they support! There was a time, I think, when circular discussions of this kind were not allowed to prosper, or at least there was a sincere effort to stop them cold in their irrelevant tracks.

Tomba, I think I have a partial answer to your question:

"Dans ce pays-ci, il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres."
-- Voltaire, Candide --

It's not enough to fail at exams (although I share your point of view of "sin is its own punishment"), the teacher also have to give you a failed grade, in public.

Marshalls (and mods!) always have to think about that, I truly believe: "pour encourager les autres".

It's best to contribute those jems than standby and watch the madness and then chip in when it all gone to shambles.

The word fanboy is over used.

Perez had a very fine race. He's doing better than Di Resta in my eyes.
But i think you should post these things in the heat of the moment to prevent the melt down of the thread. and post details too to grab the attention, as you cannot force members to be dazzled by something that is not dazzling.

I am not talking you specifically, but any other member who has noticed other interesting things going on in the race outside of redbull and ferrair mclaren etc.
Trust me calling out fanboys makes things worst.

So where do i begin to change to tune to something more technical hmmm.

Hows about the intermediate tyre and the slick tyre.

Why is the ferrari faster when the tyres are almost done. I notice this when Hamilton overtook Alonso, then was overtaken later on when the tyre life went down.

What was happening in Sector 2 for the ferrari on the final stint?

[WhiteBlue]

The Facts according to you:

Fact 1: Webber is not German

Fact 2: Vettel is German

Fact 3: Vettel can do no wrong due to fact 2

Fact 4: Webber is always in the wrong due to fact 1

Those are not the facts according to me. You are making up this BS and everybody here can see its not by me.

Those are the facts as I see them:

Fact1: Webber gets into accidents more than any other Red Bull driver

Fact2: Webber does not take team orders although they are now legal

Fact3: Webber is 80 points behind Vettel by his own making and three points less make no substantial difference justifying the risk of another crash. He is extremely unlikely to win the 2011 championship according to the vast majority of the fans and pundits

Fact4: The second half of the season can still see a return of Ferrari, although I would hate to see it. So the team management at Red Bull have a valid reason to play it safe.

[djos]

Ah yes yes, here come the hordes to support you WB ..... Oh wait, nup sorry that was just a semi driving past my building!

[hardingfv32]

Could it be if Hamilton started with the proper fuel load he would not have advanced through the field as well?

Brian

[Caito]

Well, since I live in the wrong side of the world, the race are at very off times. Though this last one as 9am, it's way too soon for me. I saw Di Resta was having a nice race, so did Kobayashi.


What I can say(not bashing at all) is that the last pics I saw of Schumacher's car, none had the front wing. What's going on? Could it be that that wing in particular loses lots of downforce when in a bad air and thus induces so many incidents?


And on Button, isn't the jack guy fault? The lolipop man releases the car but the guy with jack had lowered it first.


This is my opinion of how the sequence goes.


Car arrives, jack guys lift the car.

The gun man releases the nut, wheel goes out, wheel comes in, gunman tightens the wheel, he lift his hand. jack man checks two raised hands(each one on its axle), lowers the car. Car lowered lolipop man checks no one coming and releases the car.

[Pierce89]

The McLaren MP4-26 project now seems me clear

L-shaped sidepods means more flow above the beam wing while U-shaped sidepods means more flow under the beam wing.

With a normal exhaust system, the U-shaped sidepods design has more downforce.

If you have the L-shaped sidepods and could nevertheless make the flow go under the beam wing with the same efficiency as U-shaped sidepods, you have the jolly because you have more flow above the beam wing.

Octopus exhausts definitely realised this
- Part of the hot gases was used to make the flow around the L-shaped sidepod go where you need it (lateral exhausts slots)
- Part of them was blown under the beam wing and should have speed up the flow under the beam wing so the beam wing had more downforce
- Part of them was blown inside the diffuser to increase diffuser efficiency

L-shaped sidepods + Octopus should have worked wonderfully well

Their rear pull-rod suspension was thought for THAT level (high) of downforce, and in that case would have been wonderfully efficient and tyre-saving

But this did not work, for reasons I don't know. So they switched to RBR-exhausts which made their diffuser extremly efficient but didn't exploit their top-beam wing flow. I think that the Octopus config could have 20% more downforce than RBR one, meaning they could even run without a rear wing.

McLaren MP4-27 ? I think that they'll go for U-shaped sidepods and maybe they'll switch again to push-rod suspension (without blowing there is no need for pull-rod).

The title is already gone, little of this car can be taken next year, so they should consider (if they haven't already done: except wings, no big updates since Barcelona) stop working on MP4-26.

If they are interested (but this could be a waste of time) they could try again the Octopus, for "what could have been if ..."

20% more downforce than the RB7? Sorry for any disrespect, but that's ridiculous. There is no way in the world that the "octopus exhaust" could create that much downforce. I doubt 20% more downforce then the RB7 is even physically possible with these regs(maybe with a top speed of 250 kph)

[Robbobnob]

Could it be if Hamilton started with the proper fuel load he would not have advanced through the field as well?

Brian

I think that the plan seemed to me that they under fueled Hamilton so he could easily have more pace than those around him at the beginning but weren't planning on doing much fighting later. Salvaging a P10 grid slot to 4th overall that was there plan.

I cant remember when he changed tires, but if you compare that with the others should give us some hint to the pace he was running