Fernando Alonso has confirmed that Ferrari's pace in qualifying was not just luck. The Spaniard dominated everybody in two blistering stints in the second half of the race. Sebastian Vettel ended second, just ahead of Mark Webber.
I just think telling everyone they let their drivers race, then telling them not to makes no sense.
Mclaren, for the most part, have been letting Lewis and Jenson decide it on track, and we have seen a couple good inter team battles. They are doing what they publicly said, letting them race until the points mean one can no longer win.
I hate when politics try to take away good racing, for what, continued domination?
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
richard_leeds wrote:I agree with your points, but this isn't a new car at a new circuit. They have enough data from running this year's car at other circuits, plus enough data for this circuit to feed into their race simulators.
I suspect human error, either a bit of doubt/hesitation in decision making or perhaps they trying too hard. Decide in haste and repent at leisure is an emerging theme for McLaren in 2011.
It's a car with an entirely new engine mapping that's never been run before, a setup that's never been run on the circuit, and a fuel load that's never been run on the circuit. There's way too many unknowns there to make an accurate decision. They were pretty accurate – they still made it all the way; they just weren't accurate enough.
Hangaku wrote:What I found impressive about the whole affair, was that;
a) Massa was faster than Hamilton, by a MARGIN
b) Hamilton made it incredibly hard for Vettel to pass him on the track
c) Vettel overtook Massa like he was standing still
d) Hamilton made it incredibly hard for Massa to pass him on the track
It's not just overtaking that makes you a great driver, it's also about making yourself un-overtakable.
That was horrendous use of English. I'm sorry.
The track was different, the cars were different and the tyres were at various phases relative to what vettels tires were. The variables are massive so to compare the drivers and reach a conclusion is a bit too premature in my opinion.
@giblet
Spot on. Horner was quick to stick the boot into Ferrari last year, now his "sporting" team advise to "maintain the gap"?
Its ludicrous.
There is a difference between Ferrari last year and RB this year. Last year Ferrari told a driver who was ahead on merit to slow down to let his team mate catch up and then pass. That's different to telling your drivers to not do anything silly.Anyway, Vettel now knows that Webber can match him for pace. That'll make things interesting
in regards to the fuel calculation, I think it is possible, that the constant changes in the state of the permitted "overun" settings, could throw a curveball when it comes to these kind of calculations.
But IMO, that should affect both cars then not only one, due to the pitstop mishaps on Buttons car, we will never know if this was the case.
On the other hand, I can envisage a mixed strategy, where they run a "safe/conventionell" fuel load on Buttons car according to his grid spot, and seeing that Hamilton was down the order, and under normal conditions, would not be considered a hot favorit for the win from P10, they go for a all or nothing approach with Hamilton.
Seeing the weather, I would say it was not unreasonable to anticipate some safety car laps. They perhaps picked an fairly "risky" strategy for Hamilton, I would not blame them for that, sometimes you have to try.
Realisticly, they are not in the hunt for the championship, so an "all out" approach can do, if they pull it off, everybody would be up in arms praising their genial strategy.
Sometimes, you have to take a gamble and roll the dice, it´s easy to look like an idiot in this sport/situation, but you have to try.
Go for a ligth(er) car to help early overtaking, and hope for a safety car to get you out of trouble, it´s not the most stupid call IMO, when you start from P10.
Does it really matter if they finsish P4 or P6 in the greater scheme of things?
They rolled the dice to still try and win or at least be on the podium for their "home" race with their "star" driver, and fell short. So what?
In this part of the world, you would say "asi is la vida" (such is life).
Keep trying....
anyway, we should go back to the car not talking much more about their operative performance as a team, or split the topic off from here - IMHO
Last edited by 747heavy on 12 Jul 2011, 15:36, edited 1 time in total.
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver." - Colin Chapman
“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci
SiLo wrote:It was a shame that they miscalculated the fuel levels, I think Hamilton could of held on to second if he wasn't in a fuel saving mode for so long and could really push on. The car actually looked pretty good tbh, just awful in qualifying for some reason.
Surely weight 'miscalculation' was what gave Lewis an advantage in the early part of the race (i.e. running lighter), no? Then as his progress was far better than 'Mission Control' had anticipated, into fuel saving mode as his pace could not be sustained against the rate of burn.
sAx
Lewis's gain in position came from some excellent driving...
Agreed excellent driving alongside a lower mass a result of under-fuelling. Each kilo of fuel worth in the region of 0.3s/lap, they say!
richard_leeds wrote:There is a difference between Ferrari last year and RB this year. Last year Ferrari told a driver who was ahead on merit to slow down to let his team mate catch up and then pass. That's different to telling your drivers to not do anything silly.Anyway, Vettel now knows that Webber can match him for pace. That'll make things interesting
Thats a very biased point of view in my opinion. For starters what Ferrari did was equally shameful, if more unsubtle. The end result regardless of position is the same, that the team in question manipulated one driver to gain a result. Webber being forced to stay behind is a net gain to vettel in anyones book.
I have to say the fallout is far less than that of Ferrari simply because Horner plays politics like machiaveli and words team orders like a spin doctor.
End result webber is a red bull whipping boy as I suspected all along, and red bull a one man team IMO
Why did Horner ask webber to "maintain position" 3 laps from the end after he was closing in on Vettel?
Why are there misgivings in the media, this site and this very thread regards Horner and Red Bulls conduct?
I reckon Webbers driving was also the issue, too hot for Seb towards the end....
I already posted a similar question on rasf1, but here it goes:
After looking at the timing sheets, it's clear that a driver entering
the pits was quicker crossing the line than another one going through
the last 2 corners.
If that is so, why for example didn't Webber and Massa dive into the
pits on the last lap (to overtake Vettel/Hamilton)??? Would they have
been penalized? But on what grounds?
I second the notion that it was his great driving that got him into a better position, not the fact that he had less fuel. A couple more kilograms of weight wouldn't have made much difference early on, but would of made a HUGE difference later on. Hopefully they don't make this mistake again.
I already posted a similar question on rasf1, but here it goes:
After looking at the timing sheets, it's clear that a driver entering
the pits was quicker crossing the line than another one going through
the last 2 corners.
If that is so, why for example didn't Webber and Massa dive into the
pits on the last lap (to overtake Vettel/Hamilton)??? Would they have
been penalized? But on what grounds?
Cheers,
MB
I remember Schumi winning the Silverstone grand prix some years back whilst going through the pits serving a drive through penalty. Would love to know if this has been stopped now?
I already posted a similar question on rasf1, but here it goes:
After looking at the timing sheets, it's clear that a driver entering
the pits was quicker crossing the line than another one going through
the last 2 corners.
If that is so, why for example didn't Webber and Massa dive into the
pits on the last lap (to overtake Vettel/Hamilton)??? Would they have
been penalized? But on what grounds?
Cheers,
MB
As I understand it, in that situation, you would "pick up the chequered flag" at the pit exit (after pit entry + drivethrough) though I must admit I'm not 100% up to spec on 2011 sporting regs.
