Mercedes GP W02

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Ferraripilot

Your post made me think. With the W02 being the only SWB car could mercedes have done so knowing there will be no mandatory weight distribution rules in 2012?

There is more to this short wheel base design, maybe they made this car with one eye set on 2012? What benefits could be had I wonder...

[jav]

That W02 is an improved car over W01 is arguable but even if you accept that, this is NOT the measure. The measure is: is W02 better relative to it's competitors than W01 was. W02 clearly fails in this regard even if one were to accept it's a better car than W01 as THAT was the teams stated goal. The technical choices, defficiencies and failures are as germain as the "that's racing" view.

I think it's quite fair to critisize technical aspects chosen by pro's when so many armchair experts questioned them early on- only to be proven right. It lends more credence to the critics than the experts (and some fans) and that's the concern. To espouse this was a "plan" for 2012 in light of the all that has transpired is folly.

As Marcush keenly pointed out- big teams are always pursuing speed. Management decides where to focus resources. Success or failure as a whole becomes evident in the results, which do date have been lacking. When success evades a team for too long, explanations and optomism seem more and more likes excuses.

[luca]

I don't know about the weight distribution regulations for next year (does anyone know anything about this?), but I think the W03 will have a longer wheelbase than the W02. In various interviews Brawn kind of regretted the choice of the short wheelbase (maybe "regret" is a strong word, but it kind of seemed like it).

By the way, Red Bull's Peter Prodromou is rumoured to be joining Mercedes GP: http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=co ... Itemid=157

[marcush.]

w02 heir first all new car ...I don´t see it like this.there are a lot of elementary carry over things from BGP001 and w01 in the cockpit area and the way they position the bulkheads and to me clearly Owen and Bigois are working evolutionary on their Honda concept from 2008 for the 2009 season.they have in the last 4 years tried every nose hight one can imagine ,they have tried blade type rollover structures and reverted back to what they already had 2009 ..and they moved their steering rack upwards to allow for the v shaped tub crossection ...

I´m surprised that teams do not experiment more on Fridays.A team like Mercedes could easily put one driver completely on a R&D programme and let the other guy sample the options available for the race.
We have seen top drivers recovering seemless from early crashes and no running on fridays,so it seems not very important to get those laps under the belt.
But hey thats 3 hours of running you can amass with fancy new ideas ,new projects and base evaluations to make bigger improvements later in the season at least why are they not outfitting the cars with Kistler wheels and the whole shebang to gather more and more data ?.
But what are they doing ? Mercedes for whatever reason is not even spreading the chances by running their two guys on different strategies even when circumstances are unpredictable..it seem there is a good bit of jealousy on the drivers and maybe also on the engineering side hiding behind the smiles....

[jav]

w02 heir first all new car ...I don´t see it like this.there are a lot of elementary carry over things from BGP001 and w01 in the cockpit area and the way they position the bulkheads and to me clearly Owen and Bigois are working evolutionary on their Honda concept from 2008 for the 2009 season.they have in the last 4 years tried every nose hight one can imagine ,they have tried blade type rollover structures and reverted back to what they already had 2009 ..and they moved their steering rack upwards to allow for the v shaped tub crossection ...

I´m surprised that teams do not experiment more on Fridays.A team like Mercedes could easily put one driver completely on a R&D programme and let the other guy sample the options available for the race.
We have seen top drivers recovering seemless from early crashes and no running on fridays,so it seems not very important to get those laps under the belt.
But hey thats 3 hours of running you can amass with fancy new ideas ,new projects and base evaluations to make bigger improvements later in the season at least why are they not outfitting the cars with Kistler wheels and the whole shebang to gather more and more data ?.
But what are they doing ? Mercedes for whatever reason is not even spreading the chances by running their two guys on different strategies even when circumstances are unpredictable..it seem there is a good bit of jealousy on the drivers and maybe also on the engineering side hiding behind the smiles....

I completely agree but for the fact that those fancy new ideas need to come from somewhere, and the execution of those ideas must be made somwhere else. Unlike 2 of the top 3 teams, Merc's pipeline seems too long and too inefficient to churn out what is needed to do this evaluation. For this team to succeed, W02 and W03 need to be dominant cars from the outset (like BGP001). Otherwise, they seem too loose too much ground to those ahead.

I think this too is why so many were dissapointed with W02 at outset. Other than the SWB- it didn't seem to bring anything significant or revolutionary relative to their peers. If the SWB (or any other evolution) had proven to be better than it's peers- they'd rightly deserve accolades. The fact that the SWB and many evolutions have proven inferior rightly deserves question.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Jav,

The W02 was leading a race on merit, I cannot remember the W01 do that. Further to that, reliabilty of the top 3 teams this year has been stunning compared to that of 2010.

So that's what I meant by "that's racing". Relative to the end of the year, the W02 is slower in relation to the front three. But you don't need to be a genius to realise the W02 is only half way thru it's own lifecycle.
I will reserve total judgement on this car in relation to the 01, until I have seen data in relation to the competion over an entire season.

Luca,
Interesting coup! I cannot seem to find the story though

[wunderkind]

I´m surprised that teams do not experiment more on Fridays.A team like Mercedes could easily put one driver completely on a R&D programme and let the other guy sample the options available for the race.
We have seen top drivers recovering seemless from early crashes and no running on fridays,so it seems not very important to get those laps under the belt.
But hey thats 3 hours of running you can amass with fancy new ideas ,new projects and base evaluations to make bigger improvements later in the season at least why are they not outfitting the cars with Kistler wheels and the whole shebang to gather more and more data ?.

I think all teams and drivers would want to minimise running on Fridays in order to keep their tyres in good condition for the race. This is especially important for Mercedes GP as they are struggling with balance and tyre wear (at least in the rear). Also, none of the top teams would want to test their new ideas and components in front of everyone.

But what are they doing ? Mercedes for whatever reason is not even spreading the chances by running their two guys on different strategies even when circumstances are unpredictable..it seem there is a good bit of jealousy on the drivers and maybe also on the engineering side hiding behind the smiles....

I suspect Mercedes GP cannot afford to run their drivers on different strategies given the W02's narrow performance sweetspot.

[wunderkind]

jav,

I think it is due to a relatively lack of resources compared to other top teams and also the time it has taken for the Mercedes engineers to understand the shortcomings of the W02 and how to fix them.

[xpensive]

I believe the W02 is rather valid proof of what somebody said all along, Ross Brawn was always "Tecnical Director" in name only.

[jav]

Jav,

The W02 was leading a race on merit, I cannot remember the W01 do that. Further to that, reliabilty of the top 3 teams this year has been stunning compared to that of 2010.

So that's what I meant by "that's racing". Relative to the end of the year, the W02 is slower in relation to the front three. But you don't need to be a genius to realise the W02 is only half way thru it's own lifecycle.
I will reserve total judgement on this car in relation to the 01, until I have seen data in relation to the competion over an entire season.

Luca,
Interesting coup! I cannot seem to find the story though

The top 3 teams reliability HAS been stunning. W02 reliability has not been as good. That's the point.

There are no points for leading laps other than the last one. There are no points for having the best car at the end of it's life cycle. That's the point too.

The goal was to develop a car that would place higher than W01. Barring something truly remarkable, it does not seem that W02 will succeed at placing higher than 4th this season regardless of how much they improve from this point on.

Resources are a valid parameter for a team principle to consider. Certianly one could argue that given X- no more than Y can be expected. This is a different arguement than W02's technical merits, albeit they are related. But looking at the W02's progression, considering last years early commitment of resources, I think it's fair to say the technical failures cannot be fully explained by resources alone. There are defficiencies beyond resources in both technical and management areas that negatively impacted W01, W02 and are cause for concern for W03.

I'm seeing glimmers of hope now- perhaps this is Bells influence- perhaps not. A move like Prodromou would certainly be reason to hope. I've seen very little after BGP001's DDD that would suggest any technical hopes with the structure as it stands.

[jav]

sorry - double post.

[marcush.]

I´m speaking about race strategies with Rosberg and Schumacher also they seem to be tied together in Qualy as well ...We have never seen them spreading their chances ,which is ridiculous for a team in desperate need of a miracle...

As for the Friday running and being short on rubber... not important as you have to return a fixed allocoation of tyres after FP anyways.So who cares if you wipe out 3 sets of tyres when you have to return them after FP ...I don´t say it´s an advantage in the weekend ,but sure it is not much in terms of drawback .Guys like Schumacher or Rosberg should be able to adapt to the car in race configuration in FP3 which is a full hour .

[Dragonfly]

I think all teams and drivers would want to minimise running on Fridays in order to keep their tyres in good condition for the race. This is especially important for Mercedes GP as they are struggling with balance and tyre wear (at least in the rear). Also, none of the top teams would want to test their new ideas and components in front of everyone.

I suspect Mercedes GP cannot afford to run their drivers on different strategies given the W02's narrow performance sweetspot.

1. They have a limited number of tire sets for Friday which they return back to Pirelli after the end. No tire to be spared for Saturday and Sunday.
2. You may be right, I have also thought about this. Maybe with improved tire management, as it is expected after Silverstone, they could try different strategies.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

We didn't see the whole picture at silverstone with the W02. All the sessions were interupted as was the qualifying and race. Putting a new floor, diffuser and exhaust on the car in these tricky conditions will not have been easy to optimise set up, as you may run compromised setup.

I don't think mercedes have anything to be ashamed about regards the finish of the items, they just need to familiarise themselves with what they have.

All will be told in Germany, wether these upgrades will allow them to be able to close the gap on the top 3 or not.

[luca]

I just found this picture on the AutoSport forum: