Pup wrote: Like we discussed earlier, it's more likely the Porsche crowd who will be eyeing the Mac.
Just_a_fan wrote:The Corsa tyres are available to buy by any owner. Indeed, an option available is a set of regular tyres, a set of Corsa tyres and a set of winter tyres. So you can use your new car anywhere and any time you like. Perhaps Sir would like to look at McLaren's website and spec up a car before commenting further...TheRMVR wrote:Well the Top Gear review wasn't really fair to the Ferrari now was it? First of all the McLaren has been tested there for months. Secondly it was on semi-slick tires from what I've heard, not the original ones the customers get. And lastly the time in the McLaren has been done by the 'new' Stig.
So those 3 seconds are very easily explaned. In the CAR test the McLaren was quite a bit slower dispite being set-up by 3 McLaren mechanics for the track. While the Ferrari was from a private owner.
"new Stig" is worth 3 seconds a lap? Wow, I'm surprised he hasn't been snapped up by an F1 team. Even Alonso is only worth 0.6s...
And for the Car test, the Ferrari was never an owner car. Never happen. Ferrari don't allow it. In a recent Evo test, the magazine wanted both a 458 and 599GTO. Ferrari claimed no GTO was available. Evo offered to source a customer car and Ferrari said they would pull the 458 if they did so. Ferrari don't allow tests using owner cars...
I've read enough to believe that Ferrari are not happy with owners lending cars for comparative performance testing. Sure, lending of older cars for "these cars are all great, which one you have is up to you" type articles is not a problem. Lending for "we'll tell you the best car here" articles is not liked because they can't control the quality of the car being tested.TheRMVR wrote:Just_a_fan wrote:The Corsa tyres are available to buy by any owner. Indeed, an option available is a set of regular tyres, a set of Corsa tyres and a set of winter tyres. So you can use your new car anywhere and any time you like. Perhaps Sir would like to look at McLaren's website and spec up a car before commenting further...TheRMVR wrote:Well the Top Gear review wasn't really fair to the Ferrari now was it? First of all the McLaren has been tested there for months. Secondly it was on semi-slick tires from what I've heard, not the original ones the customers get. And lastly the time in the McLaren has been done by the 'new' Stig.
So those 3 seconds are very easily explaned. In the CAR test the McLaren was quite a bit slower dispite being set-up by 3 McLaren mechanics for the track. While the Ferrari was from a private owner.
"new Stig" is worth 3 seconds a lap? Wow, I'm surprised he hasn't been snapped up by an F1 team. Even Alonso is only worth 0.6s...
And for the Car test, the Ferrari was never an owner car. Never happen. Ferrari don't allow it. In a recent Evo test, the magazine wanted both a 458 and 599GTO. Ferrari claimed no GTO was available. Evo offered to source a customer car and Ferrari said they would pull the 458 if they did so. Ferrari don't allow tests using owner cars...
That's just not true. Many Ferrari owners lend their cars to magazines and programmes. Ferrari probably won't like it but there is nothing they can do. For smaller magazines it happens even more often. You might be right about CAR, EVO and Autocar. But the rest does it all the time.
And I did not say the new Stig was worth 3 seconds. You should read better. I said the fact that the McLaren was tested and developed on the TG test track combined with the semi-slick tires AND the new Stig could easily explane those 3 seconds. With the first being the most important of course.
Presumably you've been to both factories and discussed the cars in detail with the employees on the lines producing them? You've got first hand experience of the emotional and robotic employees? Seen them at work and watched their every action as they fashion the cars?Pierce89 wrote: I'm an engineer and I much prefer the 458(Alonso fan too, what a coincidence). The fact that the Ferrari is constructed by more artisan means than the Mclaren's sterile, bland, robot like employees, might bother some, but I love something built with emotion.
I think the McLaren will be bought by many of the same people who buy the Ferrari. Both cars will be sat in garages next to each other in many cases. One will be used on a regular (daily?) basis and one on holidays and track days.Pup wrote: But all of that aside, I don't think anyone will buy a Ferrari vs a McLaren based on a few seconds here or there. The two cars speak to two different types of people. Like we discussed earlier, it's more likely the Porsche crowd who will be eyeing the Mac.
Well I've seen 4 tests between these cars. 3 of them have been done at the same time under the same conditions with the same driver. All of those times the Ferrari won. Only when the two were tested on different occasions with different drivers on McLarens own territory the McLaren was able to be quicker.Just_a_fan wrote:I've read enough to believe that Ferrari are not happy with owners lending cars for comparative performance testing. Sure, lending of older cars for "these cars are all great, which one you have is up to you" type articles is not a problem. Lending for "we'll tell you the best car here" articles is not liked because they can't control the quality of the car being tested.TheRMVR wrote:Just_a_fan wrote:
"new Stig" is worth 3 seconds a lap? Wow, I'm surprised he hasn't been snapped up by an F1 team. Even Alonso is only worth 0.6s...
And for the Car test, the Ferrari was never an owner car. Never happen. Ferrari don't allow it. In a recent Evo test, the magazine wanted both a 458 and 599GTO. Ferrari claimed no GTO was available. Evo offered to source a customer car and Ferrari said they would pull the 458 if they did so. Ferrari don't allow tests using owner cars...
That's just not true. Many Ferrari owners lend their cars to magazines and programmes. Ferrari probably won't like it but there is nothing they can do. For smaller magazines it happens even more often. You might be right about CAR, EVO and Autocar. But the rest does it all the time.
And I did not say the new Stig was worth 3 seconds. You should read better. I said the fact that the McLaren was tested and developed on the TG test track combined with the semi-slick tires AND the new Stig could easily explane those 3 seconds. With the first being the most important of course.
As for the 3 seconds, if you watch the Top Gear lap, the car is nailed to the track and doesn't get lairy at any point. There is none of the tail sliding wide on exits (which is usually straight on to gravel and grass at the TG circuit) that many fast laps seem to entail. That alone will help laptimes because the power can be applied earlier.
Perhaps the new Stig just knows how to drive the car properly. The Car track test was done by "old" Stig who admitted he'd never driven the McLaren before but had driven the 458 before. Hardly likely to get the best from it on first acquaintance really...
Surprised the steel brake package is lighter, I guess its also smaller(disc diameter, caliper size...etc)?finishline wrote:Jay Leno, On Buying His McLaren
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2011/07/ja ... s-mclaren/
Exactly.Caito wrote:
4.20, oversteer and all settings at normal.
It's not as electronically dampened as it seems, maybe.
