Mercedes GP W02

[ForMuLaOne]

....

Since they have the shortest wheelbase, does that make the whole car shorter? If so they can produce more downforce with a larger one.

Think they would be better of with slower topspeeds and more angel on the wings.

The front wing looks still like the BPG one. Think thats a signal that they really don't have a clue to develope a better one.

The shorter wheelbase does have impact on downforce, but not in the sense of "longer car= more downforce" Their thoughts were that the limited size of the diffusor would have bigger impact on a ( compared to other cars) shorter floor. They were, like dren mentioned, thrilled by the idea of using EXPANDING exhaust gasses to generate or better simulate an airflow you would normally have on a "non bottle shaped rear" They have a quite massive reduction in width behind the double radiators, and compensate the turbulences, or fill the low pressure zone with exhaust gasses.

Just by increasing the angle of a wing you don`t earn downforce proportional to drag. This is very depending on the wing`s profile, and they gain as much downforce as they can for sure. As they are using a non developed front wing, one could say that they are happy with the airflow around the car this wing produces. Furthermore a forbidden double diffusor has the effect that you don`t need tons of downforce at the front, cause it is simply missing at the car`s rear. As you could hear both drivers complaints about the balance when MKII wing was mounted, speculations about the wing beeing "too effective" in relation to the rest of the car may be right.

Now that they`ve introduced the new exhaust system, which surely generates more downforce at the rear, PLUS ( and this is more important) the solved problem with tyre degradation, i expect MGP to mount the MK III wing within the next races. Because next year they sure want to have a new one

And, once again ( please don´t take it personal, cause you`re not the only one who wrote this) THIS WING IS NOT like the one that was mounted on BGP001....it simply isn`t.

[marcush.]

I´d think the minor evolution of the front wing is not a sign of bad understanding and being clueless it´s quite the opposite.
Brawn has been bang on with their front wing design in 2009 and it seems it is hard to top this or better said they cannot generate enough rear downforce over drag to really need more front DF.

JET -I really try to relate all my posts to the W02 development...

[Ferraripilot]

There is definitely a more calculated method to MB's updates this year. They saw an issue with their car and decided against throwing update after update on the car without fully understand the issue. MB has a firm grip on what their car is now and are making the appropriate changes. The remainder of the season for MB is nothing more than R&D for next year and they are being far more mindful with their updates as opposed to last year where they brought many items but they just failed to work. I believe they are headed in the right direction because of this.

[siskue2005]

i dont remember seeing them add updates after updates last year? When did that happen?
All i remember was everyone slating them how slow are they to update their car and frontwing blah blah

[marcush.]

We are unable to pinpoint just where they lack most.
Copy what you see and you are already back at least a full year with the regs we have currently..so this idea will not bring you much forward in the pecking order..

I ´m dead sure you could hand out a RBR7 to any team out there and it would not lead to a significantly different result in the next race.Just look at Webber ..he has the same car has shown speed and commitment and still he and his guys somehow cannot string it together good enough to challenge the guys on the other side of the garage constantly.
It´s easy to say -copy what they do,but then is it really just the car we see that´s making the difference? Trulli ,Massa ,Webber Schumacher all make youz think twice what really makes a winning combo week in week out.

Also we have seen the flexy and geometrical finess of the RBR7 seems to be not that well understood even now in the paddock..So you may be able to copy the looks but is it performing like the original? ..First yoiu have to understand.

you need to poach a top aero guy (Prodomou)and one of their leading structural engineers to get a shortcut.Money talks.

[dren]

How bad do you all think the W02 is losing out to the competition with its high CoG? A few tenths or is it substantially more?

[marcush.]

it´s really the point dren.
We cannot judge from our armchair what they lack and I almost believe they don´t either have a clue about it.
We always talk about 3tenth of laptime per 10 kg of weight added ,but surely the cofG factor is also playing into this calculation...combined with the shape of the fueltank this cannot be something linear...and surely some of the fuel volume is actually BELOW the CofG so filling her up from zero to say 20 litres could even lower the CofG height...whereas with a high and short fueltank the last litres will have a huge impact ...

Considering RedBull running a travesty of rear ride height it seems they live quite well with mass high up...so maybe another area where a lot of talk is done but the potential gains are not anything near what they need to find...

[PlatinumZealot]

This whole W02 situation has one solution:

COPY EVERY BLASTED THING ON THE RB7!!

'Nuff said!

Engineering-wise, that stratey only works if you understand what you are copying, I don't think MGP has that competence.

+1 X
It took them 8 races to copy Red Bull style exhaust. Copying RB7 will at least take 8 seasons!

There in lies the problem, Morteza. Mclaren took 3 weeks!

There is no excuse for these guys, because they had the RB6 to copy from too. Ferrari did it and it paid of well in the last part of 2010, and it's paying off even more in 2011. But, lets not stretch out this copying thing; it's just my personal feeling that Mercedez are stubborn and afraid to take in-season risks.

Makes you wonder why, when they have nothing to lose anyway - what is fourth in the championship? that's a rubbish position - fight for third instead!

[PlatinumZealot]

I ´m dead sure you could hand out a RBR7 to any team out there and it would not lead to a significantly different result in the next race.Just look at Webber ..he has the same car has shown speed and commitment and still he and his guys somehow cannot string it together good enough to challenge the guys on the other side of the garage constantly.
It´s easy to say -copy what they do,but then is it really just the car we see that´s making the difference?

You know, Webber's car is rumoured to be an RB 6.5 beta
Still 1.5 seconds faster than the Rosberg Merc though!

[dren]

it´s really the point dren.
We cannot judge from our armchair what they lack and I almost believe they don´t either have a clue about it.
We always talk about 3tenth of laptime per 10 kg of weight added ,but surely the cofG factor is also playing into this calculation...combined with the shape of the fueltank this cannot be something linear...and surely some of the fuel volume is actually BELOW the CofG so filling her up from zero to say 20 litres could even lower the CofG height...whereas with a high and short fueltank the last litres will have a huge impact ...

Considering RedBull running a travesty of rear ride height it seems they live quite well with mass high up...so maybe another area where a lot of talk is done but the potential gains are not anything near what they need to find...

Good point there, I didn't think about the possibility that the addition of some fuel could lower the CoG. The car is quicker relative to the competition once the fuel starts to burn off. How much so it is hard to tell. I'm sure some in depth statistical analysis can be done to get a good figure.

I am going to guess Red Bull's KERS package is far smaller than Mercedes'. I also am going to guess that their fuel tank has a lower CoG overall than Mercedes'. Again, just guesses. The packaging and rear aero/tightness of the Red Bull is the one area teams have not been able to or have not chosen to copy. I think the overall packaging of the Red Bull is its biggest accomplishment.

I think the W02 is too complex of a solution with some individually innovative ideas but at a cost to overall performance when all are put together. I wonder how far off the on track performance of the car has been compared to preseason simulator numbers.

[marcush.]

Having the battery pack below the tank is of course erasing most of this potential.You have them sitting there ,low.. which is good but adding fuel will hurt your cofG no discusssion.

anyone else out there not positiuoning the Batteries below the fuel tank?

[dren]

I think that is where everyone is putting them. I remember seeing the BGP001 design when it was supposed to be a Honda with KERS. Their batteries were in the nose under the drivers legs. Anyone have them under the driver's rear?

[PlatinumZealot]

Ferrari F60.

[Boost]

This whole W02 situation has one solution:

COPY EVERY BLASTED THING ON THE RB7!!

'Nuff said!

Are they going to fit a Renault engine as well?

[PlatinumZealot]

On.. not inside..