Mercedes GP W02

[marcush.]

according to Ross Brawn Mercedes will concentrate on evaluating design direction s for 2012 on Fridays from now on.The main objective will be to find more grip.....
sometimes you get the impression these guys are living in a bubble..
He even stated they were surprised how much time they found in setup last year when they had stopped development...
He also staed they think they have found the ceiling of performance with the car now--and that after introducing the new exhaust which found them a considerable step in rear end performance and tyre degradation improvement.....ohoh..x is right ..I think all hope for a firesuit ingested by our friend from the north is a romantic but naive wishful thinking...so be it .At least Mercedes seem to have a bit of irish luck with Renault being even more stubborn having lost the plot they just seemed to have found completely and deep in the woods again.

[yener]

MGP did make some progression, but the other teams are not sleeping so they ofcourse did make progression too.
Every team is working every second of the day to improve their cars on every way they can. It's just like i said in the begin of the season. All teams will improve their cars, not only MGP.

Just looking at the movie of the race you can see (especially) RBR is going with so much speed trough a corner. It's just horrible to see the MGP following them so slow trough the corners.

The new updates brought some more grip and topspeed. I think it would be better to concentrate more on the grip. RBR were 20st on topspeed at saturdays quali. Says enough to me.

The new front wing is fine and the exhaust is heading his target. I think they are almost at there limit with the car and currently chassis they are on now.

I think they are understanding the high rake front wing and the blown diffuser way better then before and using this knowledge on the next years car will be a big step forward.

From now on they realy should consider every race weekend as a full test weekend. So it means that Nico and Schumi both have to test and use different parts and maybe even totaly different cars. That would give them a huge advantage comparing to the other topteams. RBR is slowly getting under pressure by McLaren and Ferrari. So this 3 will try anything to improve the 2011 car while MGP will be preparing for next season.

[marcush.]

If brawn is unsure about the potential ,we can obviously not know any better.the car looks unfinished to me and a statement W02 is a car nothing fundamentally wrong it just lacks grip sums it up really.Be honest to yourself and admit it´s a failure or develop it and find the sweet spot .
Mclaren was miles away from a race win in Silverstone and tataaa! won it fair and square on merit just 2 weeks later.If there was nothing fundamentally wrong it can be corrected -short time- if there is a flaw in the concept avoiding further develkopment ,you are stuck.So if the Boss cannot decide what it is moron or underdevelopped swan ,who can?

[rdr]

marcush, are you trolling this topic?

[Byronrhys]

Marcush I think this is the lack of Technical Director showing, giving too much of the car to Owen and Bigois and they now don't no where to take the car, certainly its far from optimum and the tyre problem seems to be gone.

[Ferraripilot]

Marcush I think this is the lack of Technical Director showing, giving too much of the car to Owen and Bigois and they now don't no where to take the car, certainly its far from optimum and the tyre problem seems to be gone.

That sounds about right to me. We all knew their original exhaust system was not optimal, yet for some reason MB kept using it, and conjecture is because they wanted to fix other issues before diving into something substantial like rear end grip - which one would think is the most important thing.

Brawn can go ahead and test for next year's car, but remember this: everyone is losing 30 points downforce at the back end due to the EBD being taken away which in turn means RBR will not be able to run the massive rake which of course yields a substantial front end downforce advantage combined with the RBR wing. Given the periscope exhausts, I have no idea what 'trick' they may have hiding somewhere but I sure can't think of anything that is going to give them that advantage back. My early prediction is RB will not be the quickest car because the bulk of their knowledge is in their current setups and they will struggle to adapt to anything else. They have a championship to win this year and they will be busy with that.

[marcush.]

marcush, are you trolling this topic?

hopefully I´m not


I just don´t understand how they came to the conclusion their exhaust was better and stuck to it for so long instead of doing what Ferrari and mclaren did (and Force india and Virgin )and now state oh yes it´s a far better solution and it solves our rear grip /degradation issue as well..
they can take little consolation from the fact development and upgrade heros Renault have taken even longer to adopt that solution..and struggle to make it raceworthy..

[Ferraripilot]

marcush, are you trolling this topic?

hopefully I´m not


I just don´t understand how they came to the conclusion their exhaust was better and stuck to it for so long instead of doing what Ferrari and mclaren did (and Force india and Virgin )and now state oh yes it´s a far better solution and it solves our rear grip /degradation issue as well..
they can take little consolation from the fact development and upgrade heros Renault have taken even longer to adopt that solution..and struggle to make it raceworthy..

I don't believe they ever thought MB's was a better solution than RB's. MB had other issues on their plate to deal with first, which of course they did.

[marcush.]

I don´t think so.
first you need to make her fly if you are a bit marginal in terms of reliability so be it.
But then who said a rework in the exhaust area would stop them to make progress with their Radiatorlayout? They surely not have just a single fabricator who does radiators and exhausts?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Marcush,

Thats how you would play it. I would do it different, and Im sure Ferrari pilot and others would have their say in what to do first.

Bottom line is they were running compromised to keep the car cool. that in itself needs to be sorted first before you add fancy bits.

[luca]

Do you think Mercedes will keep using the new front wing in the next races as well?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I believe they will, especially for Hungary... More probably to do with logistics than anything else as it's a 4 day turnaround.

[ringo]

Renault will maul them in Hungary.
Renault has more potential. This car is a pretender. I agree with marcush about the fundamental problems. This car is a pig with sliver lipstick just like the W01.
It has some good foundation, as its consitent top ten, but it has some glaring flaws like the poor race pace and use of tyres.
Rosberg keeps qualifyinf ahead of Button, but is attacked by Button every race, and most of the time Button glides by in the DRS zone.
That's really saying the car isn't really top 4. The R31 can defend a ferrari or a Mclaren thanks to good pace and stability in braking zones.
The W02 is Mclaren food most of the time.

It needs a rethink. It needs a spacer between engine and gearbox with conventional radiators, and less stuby sidepods to match.

[NewtonMeter]

Renault will maul them in Hungary.
Renault has more potential. This car is a pretender. I agree with marcush about the fundamental problems. This car is a pig with sliver lipstick just like the W01.
It has some good foundation, as its consitent top ten, but it has some glaring flaws like the poor race pace and use of tyres.
Rosberg keeps qualifyinf ahead of Button, but is attacked by Button every race, and most of the time Button glides by in the DRS zone.
That's really saying the car isn't really top 4. The R31 can defend a ferrari or a Mclaren thanks to good pace and stability in braking zones.
The W02 is Mclaren food most of the time.

It needs a rethink. It needs a spacer between engine and gearbox with conventional radiators, and less stuby sidepods to match.

Pity it's getting it's ass handed to it repeatedly when up one on one against a Mercedes. Numerous instances in both Silverstone and Germany come to mind.

[marcush.]

Marcush,

Thats how you would play it. I would do it different, and Im sure Ferrari pilot and others would have their say in what to do first.

Bottom line is they were running compromised to keep the car cool. that in itself needs to be sorted first before you add fancy bits.

jet ...where is the logic? Brawn and Haug do not need 4th place finishes ,and even this is not really on with the car as it is right now.So working on reliability issues with a car lacking outright speed to reach the goals is complete and utter nonsense.
What if :they find out that even with all extra openings closed and all temps in check the car is still a second slow? Why sort this failure of a development?
First you need to prove the speed is there then you can work at making the speed
sustainable.Got 2 DNFs ? well so be it.
Better not see the finish fighting for top spots than sailing to the end outside the points.

To a degree they admit already doing a halfway house of this approach as AGAIN Mercedes had to conserve fuel to make it to the end.

Very clearly they trade in outright performance at the beginning of the race for
being able to push the complete distance.
It is impossible they gambled on a wet race and fueled for that one ,as the fuel load in the wet would not be critical methinks.


What I really don´t understand is :You got an aero department ,you got all the worlds prototyping tools and you got CAD-CAM facilities galore to create a flood of new parts that can be tried on Friday FP1.You got two closely matched drivers (as long as it is not Q3)so why not let Schumacher set completely on a development programme and let Rosberg be the benchmark..Schumacher is old enough and he is cool enough to be easy on this .And on top of it if he´s not matching Nico in Qualy you got the perfect reason for this being as it is as well..
thats 3hours of valuable track time ...
No Endplate vanes when MCL isd already on their second iteration...