Mercedes GP W02

[godlameroso]

I noticed that Mercedes doesn't have that slot in the diffuser, that Red Bull and Ferrari have, not sure about McLaren.

[Owen.C93]

I noticed that Mercedes doesn't have that slot in the diffuser, that Red Bull and Ferrari have, not sure about McLaren.

What slot? The perforated gurney?

[marcush.]

I think he speaks of the separated gurney (which was first seen on th
e Toro Rosso)

two pictures of the radiator arrangement on the W02 :




There is a considerable box shaped bulge in the inside fairing close to the exhaust header collector behind the 180° downward bend ...what do they hide behind that boxy thing? Could this be their battery and Kers KCU position?

[ell66]

I don't know but sector 2 times are way off the top 3 teams. With their great top speed, I can't imagine there's no more downforce to be had?

It was same case last weekend

they where top on speed trap at S1 and S3
but where way off on speed trap aswell as sector times in S2, where s2 was complete aero part.

its the same here ...i think they should run lots more downforce
they should try the Kitchen sink rear wing Mclaren is sporting
Ferrari copied that wing and they are way faster now

ferrari's rear wing is nothing like mclarens, and i think mercs rear wing is oneof the reasons it qualfies pretty well.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The Mercedes W02 is having problems re-attaching the flow once the letter box DRS shuts.

This has an adverse affect on the car in the braking zones.

I second that they should try more downforce. The car's underlying speed is a strength, it looks fairly slippery to the naked eye at least. Sacrificing 5kmh down a straght losing .2 tenths so that the car works better in the the twisties makes alot of sense.

Experimenting now is a good idea.

[mep]

txs for the pic marcush its the first time I see pictures of their cooling arrangement.

Es habe von Anfang an Probleme mit der Kühlung gegeben, ein besonderes Problem, denn "das ganze Auto war um dieses Kühlsystem herum konzipiert. Man kann nicht einfach einen größeren Kühler einbauen, man ist an das Layout des Chassis gebunden."

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 72908.html

Sounds like they are not happy with it but what I don't get is why they can't change anything with it. It reminds me of last year where they said they had the wrong weight balance but were unable to put tungsten in the floor. Couple years ago it was no issue to make significant changes to the car and even now other teams are able to adopt to a double diffusor or a f-duct.

[siskue2005]

I don't know but sector 2 times are way off the top 3 teams. With their great top speed, I can't imagine there's no more downforce to be had?

It was same case last weekend

they where top on speed trap at S1 and S3
but where way off on speed trap aswell as sector times in S2, where s2 was complete aero part.

its the same here ...i think they should run lots more downforce
they should try the Kitchen sink rear wing Mclaren is sporting
Ferrari copied that wing and they are way faster now

ferrari's rear wing is nothing like mclarens, and i think mercs rear wing is oneof the reasons it qualfies pretty well.

i am NOT taking about the upper element size of Mclaren wing, which allows them the best downforce in RACE conditions, not is QULY, and no i am not talking about that!

I am talking about the depth of the lower element, see how much AoA they run their rear wing...the same with Ferrari where they added that much AoA and depth to their rear wing at Spain and refined it at the next race, they where really fast .

mclaren had this Kitchen sink rear wing from 2009 onwards, it seems to deliver them good rear downforce and so they can run more front downforce.

This seems to be the problem for Merc, with their new front wing they have more downforce..so it balance it out they need good rear downforce....so this seems to be the solution.
2009 Mcl

2011 Mcl


Ferrari at the start of the season

Ferrari's new kitchen sink wing


RBR with small ones (coz they can afford to do that!)



See the difference
What i was suggesting that they should run more rear downforce on the rear wing
They should run that deep rear wing with that they can also run three element Front wing, in the process they can claw back the deficit to the front teams

[PlatinumZealot]

Do you guys see how high everything is under the engine cover? That is a start.

[rdr]

they where top on speed trap at S1 and S3
but where way off on speed trap aswell as sector times in S2, where s2 was complete aero part.
Ferrari's new kitchen sink wing
See the difference
What i was suggesting that they should run more rear downforce on the rear wing
They should run that deep rear wing with that they can also run three element Front wing, in the process they can claw back the deficit to the front teams

"kitchen sink" wing - wtf?

siskue2005, I think that all rear wings generate about same amount of downforce. (+/-)
Difference is how to implement drs solution.

Back to lack of W02 downforce(DF).
I think the key to enable more DF is rake positioning car than whole car became a wing. Yes, it's has cons - more drag, but overall lap time is more quick.

To my understanding it's one more weakness of W02 - short wheel base.
They simply can't rake W02. Shorter car must have more rake to have same DF than longer one. (or maybe I am wrong here?)

McLaren will dominate with longest wheel base and, obviously, most efficient rake.

[beelsebob]

siskue2005, I think that all rear wings generate about same amount of downforce. (+/-)
Difference is how to implement drs solution.

You'd be wrong – various different sources have stated that McLaren's rear wing generates significantly more DF than RBR's, including RBR management and engineers. If the longer-chord wing didn't generate more DF there'd be no point in implementing it, and McLaren would be running a short chord one that dumps more drag.

Note – McLaren are now testing their short chord version for Spa... but they're not using it at high downforce circuits – just testing it out.

[rdr]

siskue2005, I think that all rear wings generate about same amount of downforce. (+/-)
Difference is how to implement drs solution.

You'd be wrong – various different sources have stated that McLaren's rear wing generates significantly more DF than RBR's, including RBR management and engineers. If the longer-chord wing didn't generate more DF there'd be no point in implementing it, and McLaren would be running a short chord one that dumps more drag.

Note – McLaren are now testing their short chord version for Spa... but they're not using it at high downforce circuits – just testing it out.

significantly more DF - that translates in... maybe you can fill some numbers here?

I think that it's clear trade off - longer-chord wing is more DF, but DRS isn't so effective compare to W02.

In general, all is trade off.
For example, RBR slowest car(of top 4 teams) in terms of straight speed.

[Poleman]

Also the Merc has less downforce than RBR and McLaren and that itself translates to more top speed.I dont think that all the Mercedes top speed comes exclusively through their short chord rear wing DRS.

[marcush.]

the W02 is set up for high top speeds and I don´t think it would be a big issue to the MGP guys to add a few points of downforce .
But the gain in downforce would come at a cost =drag and I think the gain in vertical force would not be enough to justify being as slow as RedBull or Lotus on the straights.the way it´s run is the area where the Benz guys see the best eficiency...a bit like it was with Force india a few years ago and how Ferrari had their cars in Schumacher days.

Front upright detail Hungary 2011

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Do you guys think mercedes purposefully went the low drag route hoping the tyres would make up for the deficiencies?
Because I remember crystal clear during winter testing how auto motor und sport said the "arrows weapon is it's straight line speed".

Going back to nsmikles point, I see how high alot of that gear is inside the car, why on earth would they arrange it like that? From the surface there are ZERO benefits. We saw how they struggled with cooling, and the higher centre of gravity will lead to more set up problems.
It seems as if conceptually mercedes have seriously screwed up. Brawn coming out saying theyve exhausted the potential is very telling as it is honest.
But, though they have screwed up, they are making amends by retaining 4th(yes yes merc fan bias). Next years car had best bear no resemblance to the W02, because this would mean the team not learning from it's mistakes, and for Mercedes-Benz that is just not good enough.

[marcush.]

I think the main drawback is having more radiators -separate units +ducting -that´s going to give a weight penalty simply because of parts count (more fitting hardware more watertanks to each rad etc etc..