Red Bull RB7 Renault

[aral]

Just out of curiosity; has anyone actually seen the RBR wing flexing recently?

Oh no! Not the flexi-wing debate again. There is a seperate thread for that.

[hollus]

Just out of curiosity; has anyone actually seen the RBR wing flexing recently?

Yes, there is a separate thread, but this is quite relevant here, as it is now "not flexing" (or at least flexing much less) and hence it is a major "development" in the car.
I have been looking at many pictures from practice, quali and races pretty much every weekend this year looking exactly for that after I posted the contours of the flexing nosecone earlier this year. And the wing is definitively further out of the ground and less raked at speed than at the beginning of the year.
Either the flexing-raking wing wasn't a performance differentiator, and simply they made away with it or some behind the scenes movements have stiffened it all up, but it is definitively flexing much less (still fluctuating a lot for fractions of a second at a time, though).

[raymondu999]

Seeing as the WDC is practically in the bag, I wonder if RBR have stopped upgrading this car and have just shifted focus to their 2012 challenger. It's quite clear (to me anyways) that the RB7 is nearing it's optimum, and maybe they can just spend the rest of the year understanding the car better and setting it up better, which could also pay dividends, as it idd with Mercedes/HRT in 2010

[HampusA]

Seeing as the WDC is practically in the bag, I wonder if RBR have stopped upgrading this car and have just shifted focus to their 2012 challenger. It's quite clear (to me anyways) that the RB7 is nearing it's optimum, and maybe they can just spend the rest of the year understanding the car better and setting it up better, which could also pay dividends, as it idd with Mercedes/HRT in 2010

I always get the feeling that RBR´s car was perfect from the get go.
Aerodynamically speaking. I mean what are the changes they have made this year?
Can´t imagine it being something "big".

It´s a beautiful car, as is the RB6. Just wish they were dressed in red

[BreezyRacer]

Red Bull has always had a power deficit but all the downforce could cover that up pretty well.

I'm inclined to think that McLaren learned something big on the Silverstone weekend when a lot came out about blown diffusers, especially the way Renault was doing it. Since then McLaren have had very good downforce, along with the already great Merc power plant.

In order for McLaren to make the most that gigantic rear wing (in comparison to RB) they must also have a superior front wing/under nose setup. Remember they use a scooped panel below the nose ..

[JMN]

It´s a beautiful car, as is the RB6. Just wish they were dressed in red

Even better, bring back the Star Wars outfits:
$

[ringo]

Seeing as the WDC is practically in the bag, I wonder if RBR have stopped upgrading this car and have just shifted focus to their 2012 challenger. It's quite clear (to me anyways) that the RB7 is nearing it's optimum, and maybe they can just spend the rest of the year understanding the car better and setting it up better, which could also pay dividends, as it idd with Mercedes/HRT in 2010

It's still the fastest car out there.

The teams understanding of the tyres and also the engine mappings is the limitation.

Mclaren's resources are starting to standout now as it relates to tyre data and engine maps with mercedes.


The redbull is still the best chasis. After seeing Webber chase down Hamilton in Hungary with older tyres, i think it still has an advantage in it's handling and grip.

Hard to see it missing the front row of any race this year.

[Poleman]

Let me correct u ringo as Webber put softs on,just 1 lap earlier so it wasnt that much older as u say...Also he got overtaken by the McLaren.He had the speed to keep up yes but chase?Why didnt Vettel do so to Button's McLaren?

The RB7 is still the best chassis but McLaren seems to overcome any chassis deficit with their maps and setup.They were clearly ahead of the pack in Hungary by a small fraction.

[marcush.]

Ah .now back to the power deficit.
Has nobody realised that top speed is limited by drag and drive losses mainly and each HP at that sort of speed does contribute very little to gains in speed?

The advantage needs to be really staggering to make a differnce and this would enable those with the better engines to just eat the Renault powered cars on the straights as soon as the car is not forward traction limited.

[HampusA]

Renault engine might be the least powerful but it has other things in it´s arsenal making it a very solid engine. drive ability is something i always hear about the Renualt engine.

I think the main reason as to why it´s good to have the most powerful engine is because in theory you could have more downforce on the car without loosing the top end.

I know BMW Williams did this, they had more or less a superior engine in terms of horsepower so that allowed them to use more DF on the car but still be nr1 in top speeds.

[marcush.]

you can always trade in top speed with downforce ,as inevitably you will find places where you can stick appenendages that produce df...
But the question is if that tradeoff does pay off .It seems some combos have better efficiency at lower drag numbers ,or better said .the power advanatge is not big enough to overcome the loss in efficiency when you add downforce .
lift over drag is the magic number here and if your aero people have set their aim at a low drag package it does not pay off to crank up the wickers .

[SiLo]

Was it me or did the car seem to have visibly more grip this weekend compared to Ferrari and Red Bull? Just seemed like it was handling perfectly the whole time, even button was super quick and he hasn't had the best of times recently.

Just realised I was in the wrong thread when I posted this.... DUHHH

[ringo]

Let me correct u ringo as Webber put softs on,just 1 lap earlier so it wasnt that much older as u say...Also he got overtaken by the McLaren.He had the speed to keep up yes but chase?Why didnt Vettel do so to Button's McLaren?

The RB7 is still the best chassis but McLaren seems to overcome any chassis deficit with their maps and setup.They were clearly ahead of the pack in Hungary by a small fraction.

Hamilton has been overtaking Webber even when the RB was top dog. The back markers also assited in the overtaking.
But the way how Webber was clinging on was surprising.

So far i think Mclaren have better mechanical setup for the tyres. Any time that they make a mistake in tyre setup it really shows. Valencia being a good example.

Redbull OTOH aren't really prone to mistakes in tyres setup. The chassis is too good.

Mclaren need to stay on top of the engine map and tyre game if they are to continue winning.

[raymondu999]

While we're on the topic of maps; I wonder though. Have Red Bull stopped using their OT EBD? I mean, in quali (let's assume the same goes for the race, as you can't change the throttle maps in between nowadays as in Valencia) McLaren was audibly having that vibrating/gurgling sound. But I didn't really hear any from Red Bull. Could it be that they have actually stopped using their engine mapping? I wonder if that (if it turns to be the case) will hamper McL in terms of engine life in the future races.

[SiLo]

Anyone noticed how much camber RB were running in Hungary? It's ridiculous.