Exhaust Blown Floor - Forward Exhaust Exit

[Javert]

The exhausts seems to be blowing under the floor but not going inside the tyre (at least to me)

[ringo]

What do you think about relative paths of solid (sparks) and gaseous (flames) particles on this photo.

I'm the only one to see the flow going under the floor and exiting inside rear tyre ?

I gues the flow is coming though the tub under the drivers helmet as well dont you think?

[shelly]

These pictures are much ore interesting than valencia's shots, yet there are issues wih them also: eg slow velocity of the car and smoke exiting nt from exhausts only.
Agree with marekk that they ae a good example ofhevier objects reching further out; a better example of it in Hungary was Liuzzi's front wing bit flying much higher than air trajectory

[PlatinumZealot]

Hasn't this already been concluded by James Allison himself? Is that not enough?

[shelly]

It does not seem so.

[marekk]

Just to keep us entertained in this though time till Spa

Obviously this exhaust can blow quite wide when reving on stationary, slightly burning car:




But what happens if we move forward (not very quick, pit lane limiter in Hungary is 80kmh AFAIK):

[ringo]

The conclusion has been reached eons ago.
Marek the engine can be at ilde speed right there in the last shot and it can be blowing at 18000k in the first shot where it's at 90 degrees.
So you have no case. Allison had the last word.

It's over man.

Best to move on to how much downforce it makes compared to the rear blown diffuser.

[shelly]

There is no conclusion yet. There is no agreement on Allison words for example, and there are some issues to discuss yet, for exmple the wrong statement that in a diffuser you do not want air to come in from the sides.

ringo, if you prefer to think that the "conclusion has been reached eons ago", and if you do not care if that conclusion is right or wrong, then leave thread.
Afaik, you have not still acknowledged that dust does not follow exhaust and that the bargeboard creates a vortex under the floor. If you do not understand these two elements first, probably you can not contribute actively to the discussion.

[Javert]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ux0Au8jkE[/youtube]

Interesting video from Pirelli showing FEE and EBD

[marekk]

The conclusion has been reached eons ago.
Marek the engine can be at ilde speed right there in the last shot and it can be blowing at 18000k in the first shot where it's at 90 degrees.
So you have no case. Allison had the last word.

It's over man.

Best to move on to how much downforce it makes compared to the rear blown diffuser.

Heidfeld is on pit limiter in this moment (i did screenshots myself).

Allison said nothing about exhaust path. And everybody can see this path now.

[strad]

Wrong...it's an overly simplistic video that is made and used only to show that the inner edge of the tires gets hot...this is not an actual aero video and not intended to show HOW the system works.

[Greenish]

Wrong...it's an overly simplistic video that is made and used only to show that the inner edge of the tires gets hot...this is not an actual aero video and not intended to show HOW the system works.

From the video:


I'd say Pirelli have good technical incentives to know HOW their tires are getting cooked, and why they get hotter/different heating profiles on certain cars. This image probably represents their abstraction of the aero behavior at least as much as it's their cartoon.

Or they've agreed implicitly or explicitly with the teams not to show too much detail, or even to be intentionally misleading... I don't know. I sure doesn't show any vortices.

But they do say it's the INSIDE of the tires that gets hot....

[PlatinumZealot]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ux0Au8jkE[/youtube]

Interesting video from Pirelli showing FEE and EBD

This was not made by an engineer it's just an animation by a graphics designer. And by the way some of the gasses do flow to the inside of the tyres.. It was in the CFD plots.

Javert.. listen to this video very carefully. This whole issue of blowing the flow has to be handled calmly and carefully. There are many inaccurate F1 videos around, yes, even those made by somebody in the Pirrelli PR department.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDWFaRVQ ... r_embedded[/youtube]

[PlatinumZealot]

This is inconsistent with some arguments made on here...



But it's simply the car driving over some smoke. THat happens to be on top of the floor as well!

You need to be calm in these situations. Anxiety can often lead to quick and wrong decisions.

[zorog]

Agreed, the smoke it not coming from the exhaust, just the smouldering bodywork.

In the moving picture the smoke shows the flow from behind the exhaust exit, not out of it.