Mercedes GP W02

[donskar]

I've read the last couple pages and, applying my pretty marginal tech background, I can summarize:

The M-B tech team produced a basically faulty design (flawed in basics like high CG, wrong wheelbase); then that design was poorly implemented (amateurish fit and finish), and then ineffectively developed. Other than that, everything is just fine.

Seriously, the suits in M-B's mahogany row must be feeling very uncomfortable. Success in F1 can polish a brand image, but M-B's performance in F1 could (conceivably) have the opposite impact. They are in a tough spot: cut their losses and admit defeat? pour more money into F1 and hope that things get better? A tough-minded businessman would ask Brawn, what specific changes will you make to ensure success? I see no evidence that Brawn could come up with a succinct, believable answer.

[doink]

I'm surprised they didn't go for a walnut dash, too tbh.

[Hemsy]

Bob Bell will turn this team around, I'm sure! Remember while guys like Andrian Newey & Pat Fry have been attending the races, Bell has been based at the factory ever since he joined the team. This to me is a indication that he is making whole sale changes at the team after he realized just how incompetent some of the ex-Honda staff really are. In relation to the W02 its funny how it took the team so long so resolve their cooling & tire wear issues but as soon as Bell joined the team, they were resolved in a few races time. Also it seems that the reason we are seeing that Force India catch up and even beat Mercedes is because Bob must have decided what a lost cause this year's car is and instead focus on next year's car.

[marcush.]

If i were Bell i would attend the races and watch the team struggle with what they got in their hands.
I would also urge Haug and the Mercedes board to build a MKII versuion of the w02
to show to the people in charge that nothing,absolutely nothing will make this car a winner ,no 6 months of development ,not a longer wheelbase ,not a new Cof G position.

The car is too slow in low and full tank it gains performance compared to thee top contenders under lower grip situations .(FP1 ,greasy track )just the same as we saw last year .
The grip levels saturation earlier than on other cars is maybe hinting at basic weaknesses of the car concept ,be it stiffness levels or the general approach in certain areas or a lack of understanding of some area technology well understood at RedBull ,Ferrari and Mclaren.

So in my understanding you have to show your employees in real world what this car would need to be competitive-50 extra HP ,100kg less weight or whatever to wake them up.

[xpensive]

And my point is that the concept of the W03 might not be Bob Bell's call, the decision on which way to go, in basic terms, might already have been taken by a team of young engineers in Stuttgart with way too much Cray-time on their hands?

Again; "Concept of Mercedes-Benz"

[munudeges]

Regardless X, Ross Brawn is the head of all of this and the buck stops with him. With the reputation he has, even if he is now Team Principal, spotting that a car has a wheelbase that is too short should have been pretty obvious. I also think he's suffering from the all too common syndrome of data-itis:

“Obviously we’re still trying very hard [to catch the top three]. Interestingly, we do analyses after each race and generally we are clawing it [the gap] back slowly,” he said.

“Obviously not as quickly as we’d like because I think there’s pretty intense competition at the front, they’re working ferociously to improve their situation, and we’re also working to catch up.

“But in terms of what we call normalised lap time when we take account of tyres, fuel, all sorts of things, we have reduced the gap – but not enough yet.”

The only reason I'm remotely interested in this team now is to see what Bob Bell does with it and whether he'll stick it out or jump out of the boiling water as Gascoyne did at Toyota. He's the most important person there now. Brawn has shown himself to be a bit of a spare part.

[xpensive]

Regardless X, Ross Brawn is the head of all of this and the buck stops with him. With the reputation he has, even if he is now Team Principal, spotting that a car has a wheelbase that is too short should have been pretty obvious.
...

I don't believe we should be too certain that RB is in command here, when the organization seems to have an overhead suitable for the old Kremlin and Norbert taking his orders over the cell-phone from Stuttgart, I don't think RB is in charge of much.

Conclusively, Ross or anyone else at Brackley spotting a ridicilous wheelbase might be entirely beside the point, call was made.

[wunderkind]

Regardless X, Ross Brawn is the head of all of this and the buck stops with him. With the reputation he has, even if he is now Team Principal, spotting that a car has a wheelbase that is too short should have been pretty obvious.
...

I don't believe we should be too certain that RB is in command here, when the organization seems to have an overhead suitable for the old Kremlin and Norbert taking his orders over the cell-phone from Stuttgart, I don't think RB is in charge of much.

Conclusively, Ross or anyone else at Brackley spotting a ridicilous wheelbase might be entirely beside the point, call was made.

I think the powers-that-be in Stuttgart seldom gives orders to Ross Brawn. The suits in Stuttgart have very little to offer to Ross Brawn in terms of technical resources (some thought Stuttgart could help a great deal in building the simulator, but the difference a roadcar and an F1 simmulator is day and night ), and know even less in how to manage an F1 organisation.

I think Norbert's role is just a liaison role, no more.

I do agree Ross Brawn and his technical team has a lot to answer for with this year's car so the same mistakes will not happen again.

[Hemsy]

And my point is that the concept of the W03 might not be Bob Bell's call, the decision on which way to go, in basic terms, might already have been taken by a team of young engineers in Stuttgart with way too much Cray-time on their hands?

Again; "Concept of Mercedes-Benz"

I doubt that, firstly because now, Ross knows all too well the risk of designing a car with inherently flawed concepts. Which is why he would prefer to start from scratch with Bob Bell heading the project and lose a month than to risk designing another flawed car. Secondly development work on next year's car usually starts around March and Bob Bell joined the team in April so I doubt they were so far into the project that he couldn't make fundamental changes to the project.

[wunderkind]

And my point is that the concept of the W03 might not be Bob Bell's call, the decision on which way to go, in basic terms, might already have been taken by a team of young engineers in Stuttgart with way too much Cray-time on their hands?

Again; "Concept of Mercedes-Benz"

I doubt that, firstly because now, Ross knows all too well the risk of designing a car with inherently flawed concepts. Which is why he would prefer to start from scratch with Bob Bell heading the project and lose a month than to risk designing another flawed car. Secondly development work on next year's car usually starts around March and Bob Bell joined the team in April so I doubt they were so far into the project that he couldn't make fundamental changes to the project.

I doubt the conceptual design of the W03 began in late March. They had no idea what was happening to the W02 at that time and given the limited resources they had, they probably threw everything at the W02 and waited for Bob Bell to arrive before commencing work on the W03.

[xpensive]

And my point is that the concept of the W03 might not be Bob Bell's call, the decision on which way to go, in basic terms, might already have been taken by a team of young engineers in Stuttgart with way too much Cray-time on their hands?

Again; "Concept of Mercedes-Benz"

I doubt that, firstly because now, Ross knows all too well the risk of designing a car with inherently flawed concepts. Which is why he would prefer to start from scratch with Bob Bell heading the project and lose a month than to risk designing another flawed car. Secondly development work on next year's car usually starts around March and Bob Bell joined the team in April so I doubt they were so far into the project that he couldn't make fundamental changes to the project.

You reason as if it was Ross Brawn's call, Stuttgart makes the call, at least from now on when I believe they know all too well that RB was always Technical director in name only.

[marcush.]

So just WHY did we not see a replacement for Jorg Zander till april this year ,gentlemen?
Brawn obviously has a different role in the company now and has NO input in the car concept or design .

Somehow the whole story makes sense now..Mercedes had from very early on the intention to take over Brawn GP and was of course presentetd what they will buy -INCLUDING concept work done for the W01 !-You would not buy a Team without a car for next year ,would you?
Maybe Brawn was more clever than meets the eye here and told Stuttgart he has no recources to design the car as he has had to lay off too many people and those are needed to win the titles.
He obviously put all eggs in one basket early on and i could very well imagine that Mercedes got the data from early concepts and carried the work forward .

btw ..I´m pretty sure the switch to Catia V5R19 was done when transferring the data ..Honda/Brawn worked with ?

UGS .

BGP001 concept was done by Phil Arnaboldi ,John Owen was an aeroguy Arnaboldi also coming from Sauber .

Does anyone know if he is still with the team?

[Hemsy]

And my point is that the concept of the W03 might not be Bob Bell's call, the decision on which way to go, in basic terms, might already have been taken by a team of young engineers in Stuttgart with way too much Cray-time on their hands?

Again; "Concept of Mercedes-Benz"

I doubt that, firstly because now, Ross knows all too well the risk of designing a car with inherently flawed concepts. Which is why he would prefer to start from scratch with Bob Bell heading the project and lose a month than to risk designing another flawed car. Secondly development work on next year's car usually starts around March and Bob Bell joined the team in April so I doubt they were so far into the project that he couldn't make fundamental changes to the project.

You reason as if it was Ross Brawn's call, Stuttgart makes the call, at least from now on when I believe they know all too well that RB was always Technical director in name only.

Ross is not TD at the team, he is the team principal! His role at Mercedes is very different to what it was at Ferrari. His role right now is akin to the likes of Cristian Horner & Martin Whitmarsh. Until the arrival of Bob Bell, Mercedes had no TD!

[Hemsy]

And my point is that the concept of the W03 might not be Bob Bell's call, the decision on which way to go, in basic terms, might already have been taken by a team of young engineers in Stuttgart with way too much Cray-time on their hands?

Again; "Concept of Mercedes-Benz"

I doubt that, firstly because now, Ross knows all too well the risk of designing a car with inherently flawed concepts. Which is why he would prefer to start from scratch with Bob Bell heading the project and lose a month than to risk designing another flawed car. Secondly development work on next year's car usually starts around March and Bob Bell joined the team in April so I doubt they were so far into the project that he couldn't make fundamental changes to the project.

I doubt the conceptual design of the W03 began in late March. They had no idea what was happening to the W02 at that time and given the limited resources they had, they probably threw everything at the W02 and waited for Bob Bell to arrive before commencing work on the W03.

Every team, even the small ones start work on next year's car by March as has been mentioned in n number of interviews by engineers and aerodynamicists. In Merc's case though, Brawn may well have decided that it's better to start in April (after Bob Bell's arrival) and in the meanwhile focus all their attention on solving the W02's cooling issues.

[Adamski]

Is there a possibility to have some fresh updates on the car from the factory in Belgium or they will shut down everything, included wind-tunnel?
I remember Rosberg said the team now have a holiday, but in the other hand Vettel and Liuzzi talks about upgrades in Belgium.
So how it is going to be in the summer brake for the factory?