Mercedes GP 2011

[marcush.]

that´s really the difference here.I´m a local boy and know (or have the feeling i know how people tick in this area of the world.Connections is everything.And Haug obbviously has a strong hand securing him.
The flying silver arrows in LeMons would have been enough to kick out ANY motorsports boss..But he survived even that after sending unsafe cars out into the race..wich led to a third!!!! flip-over that weekend...anyone with his head level would have stopped the show after flip two at the very latest and Haug really had the luck of his life nobody got harmed in this.
So either he is not more than the voice of Mercedes or indeed he has strongest bonds in the Daimler board.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Marcush

So far as Iam aware, he was under pressure from Schrempp to race. It was his decision to withdraw even if they were actual favourites for the race.
His decision was greeted with derision by some.

damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Thank the almighty nothing happened, but as for this being a unique to Mercedes problem, I remember a Porsche flipping too.

After that season, the rules on aero were changed

[wunderkind]

Yes, a Porsche flipped and the BMW also flipped when racing in the American Le Mans series. There have been quite a few instances of flipping in those years.

Norbert Haug has been in his position for over a decade and worked with successive Mercedes CEO's such as Werner Niefer, Helmut Werner, Jurgen Schrempp, Jurgen Hubbert, and Dieter Zetsche. He must be pretty intelligent and highly regarded to have held on to his job through all these changes ath the top of Mercedes Benz. Haug's predeccesor was the highly respected Jochen Neerpasch. He left Mercedes when it became clear Mercedes would not have entered F1 on its own (that subsequently gave rise to the "Concept by Mercedes Benz" Sauber asoociation a number of years later). But some said Haug had a little hand in shifting Neerpasch.........

There are also rumours that Werner Niefer (the CEO of Mercedes Benz in the second half of the 1980's) had approached Ron Dennis around 1989-1990 about a full buy-out that would have seen the McLarens becoming the Silver Arrows. But McLaren was at its peak and Ron was not keen on taking orders from the Germans at the time.

As for the assertion that Haug would like to become the modern Alfred Neubauer.............I think Ross Brawn would rather gain 100 pounds and walk around the pitlane with a walking stick than to see Haug becoming the new Neubauer.

[marcush.]

without intending to put fuel into this fire:
Mercedes had not one ,but three flip overs in a very short time.I´m well aware that the cars back then were very close to the edge but:in LeMans ONLY Mercedes had it ..and it´s well documented it was a design flaw .period.
whoever put up pressure to race is not important .Important is that it was not stopped after the second flip at the very latest.
Instead they hastily consulted Newey(!) and put on two dive planes to the front to try and keep the car on the ground.

My point is :they were lucky ,no question.It could all have ended in a drama even ending Mercedes involvement in any form of motorsport ,considering the history of Mercedes in LeMans .To put all this at risk ,ignoring the potential impact does show a thing or two and it shows the force somewhere that is cementing Haug in his position whatever is happening .As long as no spectators are killed he will last by the looks of things.
I´m specualting here obviously and could be terribly wrong but hey next year Schumacher will be WDC and is going to retire with Haug anyways.

[xpensive]

@marcush,
Fact of the matter is that the Daimler board was scammed into believing the Brawn GP team had substance more than a cheating chassis, sanctioned personally by MrM to f*ck with FOTA, where the fat journo acted useful idiot for Ross Brawn and Nick Fry.

Now it's just an average team with bullsh*t ambitions from a bullsh*t management with a bullsh*t car.

Without those cherry-picked engines, they would be nowhere, Ron Dennis must enjoy this tragedy immensly.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

So according to you x:

Mercedes are suckers.
Mercedes are inept at running an f1 operation.
Brawn is a cheat.
Brawn is also useless.
Norby is but a fat journo.
The current team falls below your god-like skill and guile.

That's all fine and well, your opinion is as valid as anyone elses.

Can't help feel that you would do even worse in the same position as all those you lambasted.
If you can do better, why not grace the team with your cv instead of beating them down all the time?

[beelsebob]

So according to you x:

Mercedes are suckers.
Mercedes are inept at running an f1 operation.
Brawn is a cheat.
Brawn is also useless.
Norby is but a fat journo.
The current team falls below your god-like skill and guile.

That's all fine and well, your opinion is as valid as anyone elses.

Can't help feel that you would do even worse in the same position as all those you lambasted.
If you can do better, why not grace the team with your cv instead of beating them down all the time?

Not that I'm really defending what he's saying, but your argument is fallacious. Just because he couldn't do better, does not mean that they're doing the best job they can.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Agree with that beelsebob.

But is there a need for the vitriolic abuse being levelled at the team? I doth protest...

[beelsebob]

Agree with that beelsebob.

But is there a need for the vitriolic abuse being levelled at the team? I doth protest...

Not at all, no, as far as I can tell, Merc are doing a pretty damn good job – maintaining your position in the grand scheme of teams is hard, as Renault are currently demonstrating. Their car isn't great, but it's not a dog either.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

If thats your stance I'm thoroughly in agreement, but my post you disagreed with at first was in response to a post that directed a very strong and vitriolic broadside at the team which in my opinion is unwarranted.

[MIKEY_!]

IMO no one can say brawn is useless - remember Ferrari from '99 to '04... nuff said.

[Fil]

Mikey, whilst historical winning pedigree does count, ultimately you're only as good as your last race..


Schumacher was once a winner too. Now he can't get onto the podium, and struggles to beat his winning-less teammate. History counts for little when racing today.

[xpensive]

To my mind the managment is still MGP's most fundamental problem, where the myth around Ross Brawn's contribution at Benetton and Ferrari should come into question. Clearly he never designed any cars, which of course was Rory Byrnes jurisdiction, while I doubt if he had much to do with assembling a competent team either, not with Jean Todt around anyway.

So what was his job description then? As a race strategist, most successful at that I admit, and Michael Schumachers consigliere,
is all rather obvious, but perhaps being his mentor MrM's inofficial ambassador to the winning team was just as important?

As for Norbert Haug and Nick Fry, I won't even bother to comment

[marcush.]

Haug clearly has to take the blame for not understanding what the state of affairs was at BRawn GP and proposing the Team as is as championship worthy also in future years.

Brawn has sold the item to Mercedes not really admitting they had lost allmost all corecompetence to produce a championship worthy car.Or even more worrying he did not realise this was the case.

Mercedes kept Brawn not realising they had made the man rich but forcing him to stay is not a guarantee to stay on top.They really did not understand Brawns importance to the success of the team once it is sold to Mercedes.

I think both Brawn and Haug dreamed up a scenario like racing fans and used their connections and pedigree to sell their dream to Mercedes ,Rosberg and Schumacher and lost the view of reality a bit on their way about the true state of affairs inside Brawn GP in 2009 ..the necessary steps were not taken and perhaps they all hoped Schumacher could provide the bridging of those rather severe gaps that appeared in the second half of 2009 already.

[MIKEY_!]

Mikey, whilst historical winning pedigree does count, ultimately you're only as good as your last race..


Schumacher was once a winner too. Now he can't get onto the podium, and struggles to beat his winning-less teammate. History counts for little when racing today.

I think much of Schuy's problem is his age and fitness. His reactions are down on what they once were and possibly just out of practice (especially last year). What i'm saying is the man has talent for this kind of thing, he will be back. Some may have doubted Newey's ability in his later time at mclaren, look at him now.