Mercedes GP W02

[marcush.]

it´s very clear the car did not meet set targets from day one.Thge cooling was and maybe still is marginal ,so from early on they clearly had decided things they could not setup in reality .The KERS was marginal in race 1 as well ,basically the whole car for whatever reason was late .and it still looks unfinishhed ...so setting ambitious goals is one thing but to load too much on your shoulders is the other.As we can see they again fumble around in the airbox area when almost no team has similar solutions ..so this seems to be an area where lots of roads can be followed but no real gains can be made...otherwise we would see converging in design as this area has not seen many dramatic changes..Two team FI and Lotus even adopting Mercedes invention for this year-so why go back and come up with another variant ....again a lot of work engineering hours to put in new molding concepts new fabrication concepts instead of refining what you have done originally.
It looks like Dr.Frankensteins laboratory with every idea some guy is coming up with applauded and followed and then dropped after realising it was not THAT brilliant and jumping on the next idea.

[Ferraripilot]

If anything, these next races MB will understand their new exhaust more thoroughly and suspension arrangement as it applies to it and pick up some time between now and the end of the season. That being said, they probably have a good thing going with W02s suspension and general platform of the car and W03 will probably be an evolution with the obvious areas ironed out.

swb, fuel tank, bulky sidepods, high CoG radiators, will all be 'fixed' and we can only hope MB has something extra to bring to the table other than their best attempt to copy Red Bull (not necessarily a bad thing).

W03 will probably retain the W02 nose and suspension arrangement for the front end with some minor geometry changes to accomodate for the LWB at the back end. Any other conjecture regarding this? I'm only saying this as I believe W02 to not be all that bad. W02 just has a couple fundamental issues which seriously handicap its capabilities.

[marcush.]

again -the aim was to COMPETE for 3rd place in the championship not to stabilize .The restructure was done already last year and it was told all things are in position to move forward .
MB claimed already in Canada to have solved the rear tyre overheating issues but it did not help their cause really.
Now the team suddenly conceeds there are fundamental flaws with the design that cannot be rectified when only a few weeks ago the team voiced hope that Mercedes could be the surprise of the second half of the season or a bit earlier had aired hopes to compete for wins later in the year.
In fact it took Mercedes 7 months to realise the car was a moron.X could see that from a picture in less than 5 seconds... =D> =D>

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Marcush

You know the intrinsic flaws of the W02 and of the team. They knew about the problem, and it didnt take them 7 months to realise there was a problem. It took them 7 months to solve the problem.


To say Mercedes wouldnt win in 2011 is actually not a big call to make at all.

Consider the W02 didnt have the full allocation of staff to work on it as the top 3 teams did.
Consider that the W02 didnt have a technical director.
Consider that the teams simulators were being upgraded and that would have had an adverse effect on the current car.

When you consider these facts, and the fact it led on merit for 20 laps in China, you will see that this car is not deserving of the criticism being levelled at it on these pages.

Even Red Bull has a FUNDAMENTAL FLAW in KERS. Are we going to question their integrity? And thats with 580 staff!
The questions you seek about the W02 are ones only the engineers who designed it can answer. In the mean time its still holding 4th, and has to be respected as a car worthy of competing in F1.

[marcush.]

Marcush

You know the intrinsic flaws of the W02 and of the team. They knew about the problem, and it didnt take them 7 months to realise there was a problem. It took them 7 months to solve the problem.


To say Mercedes wouldnt win in 2011 is actually not a big call to make at all.

Consider the W02 didnt have the full allocation of staff to work on it as the top 3 teams did.
Consider that the W02 didnt have a technical director.
Consider that the teams simulators were being upgraded and that would have had an adverse effect on the current car.

When you consider these facts, and the fact it led on merit for 20 laps in China, you will see that this car is not deserving of the criticism being levelled at it on these pages.

Even Red Bull has a FUNDAMENTAL FLAW in KERS. Are we going to question their integrity? And thats with 580 staff!
The questions you seek about the W02 are ones only the engineers who designed it can answer. In the mean time its still holding 4th, and has to be respected as a car worthy of competing in F1.

JET ,just look back 12 months .. apart from the date and the car designation NOTHING changed.

They had no TD after Zanders departure early 2009!Mercedes bought a team without TD.

The problem is not solved at all .The car is slow .
They are pretty lucky as Renault lost their lead driver even before the season started and on top of it got lost in the woods for what ever reason...
Mercedes is still struggling to hold FI at bay...as they were last year.
The driving simulators are fancy stuff not really important when you got top drivers which they do have.

[dren]

Certainly we all realize the car isn't a dog, it just isn't the car Mercedes were talking it up to be and the car we expected it to be. I think we expected podiums here and there and maybe a fluke race win, an improvement from last year. This hasn't panned out.

Not much has been said about the supposedly complex suspension front to rear linking system. I wonder how much of a benefit, if any, this system gives.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Marcush

You are looking for ther preverbial magic wand. You will not find it mate.
Everything takes time. Especially when you buy a team in flux the way Mercedes did.

The car is 4th fastest, you expect them to be beating or competing with Red Bull with 25% less and no TD?
I can tell you I didnt.

Better I hoped for...nay...prayed for! But sadly like most things in life it needs time to materialise.

You know what Mercedes are doing to fix things. Give em time, Stuttgart are doing just that.

[marcush.]

Certainly we all realize the car isn't a dog, it just isn't the car Mercedes were talking it up to be and the car we expected it to be. I think we expected podiums here and there and maybe a fluke race win, an improvement from last year. This hasn't panned out.

Not much has been said about the supposedly complex suspension front to rear linking system. I wonder how much of a benefit, if any, this system gives.

in fact I have not read anything about it ...but there was mention of something and it was the reason for them testing the "Vanilla" car or whatever they called it.
Obviously the system is not setting the world alight.

[xpensive]

In all honesty, I don't think the budget or headcount is in any way accountable for the basic concept of the W02, it does't matter if your a dozen or 600 when you decide to settle for a go-cart wheelbase, weird cooling system, high CoG or a rudimentary xhaust.

Those are principal decisions more than anything else, things you don't change during the season, no matter how many you are.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Yet all these "wrong" concepts still culminate in the W02 being 4th fastest.

Is Renault's FEE concept in all its complexity any better than Mercedes "rudimentary" concept?

I wouldnt have said so.

[marcush.]

the point is they are out to win the pot.You cannot point towards the other guy who got lost in the woods to justify your own shortcomings.

The car was laid out to claim regular podiums .And Schumacher needed a lot of luck to almost get there .The Rosberg show was not more than a fluke with low fuel .

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

You are being unfair on the team Marcush.

The car was born out of a team adhering to the RRA. Im not saying that with 150 more staff they'd be beating Red Bull.
But i'm saying they'd be closer and certain mistakes may have been averted, particularly with the the technical direction afforded by a decent technical director.

[jav]

has anyone heard of any updates for W02? Our development can't be compared with McLaren but Renault is said to have some in the pipeline. Is 4th place in jeopardy?

[dren]

has anyone heard of any updates for W02? Our development can't be compared with McLaren but Renault is said to have some in the pipeline. Is 4th place in jeopardy?

I think aside from a few bits here and there and set-ups, we will not see any major updates. I would assume the team has a specific set-up for Monza and maybe something similar for Spa.

Any new pics of the W02? I haven't seen anything yet. Sounds like rain tomorrow for sure. Mixed conditions for quali and race.

[Byronrhys]