Mercedes GP 2011

[xpensive]

Most interesting, can you please share those operation diagrams with us?

[timbo]

Most interesting, some diagrams you can share with us?

Which ones are you interested in?

[marcush.]

a team structure organigramme maybe?

[timbo]

Well, I hope it's not too serious copyright infringement...
And mods should probably move all this to a separate topic.
The reflection from the flashlight is on the box of Aldo Costa who responds to Byrne and is head of "Rolling chassis projects".

[raymondu999]

As a random aside, MGP is looking for a CFD aerodynamicist

http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&j ... 2_*2_*2_*2

[marcush.]

this organigramme is confusing as Brawns is in it two times but for the same activities :
He has the position of track activities + he´s the head of race engineer and chief mechanic...

but in the decision process for the car he is just one of four contributing as the voice of those running the car ...so his input is more a thing of operational fit when Almondo was there to confirm they can produce and Ascanelli was contributing future technology to Byrnes designs?

[marcush.]

Schumacher admits to being too stubborn in his first career winning at all cost and adopting questionable on track manners from the great of his time Senna and Prost :

http://www.faz.net/artikel/C30762/micha ... 90671.html

Very true ..the two Suzuka prost -senna crashes with no real consequence for both of them were no better and Schumacher simply had the view this was how it had to be done and you would get away with it.
With hindsight he´s sorry for his attitude today .
If nothing else the Schumacher of 2011 is much more refined as a human being and the one thing that´s missing is the sight of him on the rostrum.Mercedes has to deliver the goods now.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Mercedes owe it to their own legacy to get to winning ways in my book.

[MIKEY_!]

I could be wrong but i though schuy came back cause he missed it. If that means he missed the driving then that is very admirable and possibly why he seems less driven and focused this time round.

[xpensive]

The organigramme is a tad confusing, but given it's correct, I think it more than anything proves what someone has been nagging about, Ross Brawn was never directly involved in chassis design during the golden years with Ferrari, a myth and a misconception.

In charge of track-activities and race engineering was his primary duties, at which he excelled I must admit.

[timbo]

Ross Brawn was never directly involved in chassis design during the golden years with Ferrari

Much the same thing can be said about Byrne if you like. Just one step closer.

[Hemsy]

Perhaps OT, but when discussing strange organizations, this is how Wiki describes Ferrari post-Aldo Costa;

"Chassis director" (Pat Fry) is one of 3 positions (the other two being: "production director" - currently filled by Corrado Lanzone; and "electronics director" - currently filled by Luca Marmorini). All 3 engineering positions operate on an equal footing within the team and all report directly to team boss Domenicali who has now taken over responsibility regarding on circuit strategy and other functions previously assigned to "technical director".

How a business administrator like Domenicali could possibly act decisively over those guys is beyond me?

I think that's why Adrian Newey described that set up when he asked who was Technical Director as 'strange', and no, it isn't the same structure they had under Jean Todt. What they had was a Technical Director in all but name in Rory Byrne and a track operations head in Ross Brawn who was called a Technical Director, hence the confusion as to who really did what. This is a bit of a mess that I can't see producing a car with any coherent thinking behind it.

Point is, I think Newey believes that you need a dyed-in-the-wool technical person who is going to have a clear idea of what form the car will ultimately take, and in the case of Ferrari I believe that person should have been Tombazis. Even having a Technical Director isn't enough. Bob Bell has a lot of experience but I just don't think he is that person. When he was at Renault it was Mike Gascoyne that kicked off the type of car they ultimately had for four seasons and had probably the best mechanical people around like Rob Marshall. When Bell was at McLaren people like Gordon Murray did the real thinking.

The same can be said for Adrian Newey that it was Prodomou that did the real work. The point is that when a TD is successful there is always a capable group working with him. Newey did not achieve a lot of success during the Ferrari domination days and Mclaren first won a championship in years after he left. So does that mean he is a bad TD?! The point is that its a team effort. So to not give Bell any credit is just wrong.

[raymondu999]

Does Prodromou do the real work? Really? I get the impression he's still got a big hand in car designs, design concepts, etc

[Hemsy]

Does Prodromou do the real work? Really? I get the impression he's still got a big hand in car designs, design concepts, etc

Prodomou has a major role in designing the car which is why apparently Ferrari were trying to hire him after they failed to impose themselves on the championship yet again this year.

[munudeges]

The same can be said for Adrian Newey that it was Prodomou that did the real work.

No. Newey has a track-record of being hands-on with the car where Bell doesn't. The real ideas have always come from other people where that just isn't the case with Newey. Cars developed under him have always had pretty clear philosophies.

Regardless of when Newey's cars fall behind, they always have a track record of coming good even when the regulations have stabilised. No one else has that kind of track record. As for McLaren winning a championship when he left, that car had years of Newey's aerodynamic thinking at McLaren left in it with things like the anteater nose that came back in 2006. I doubt whether those left at McLaren really understood how that car actually worked.

It's always very clear where the ideas have actually come from.