Mercedes GP 2011

[xpensive]

So, is it that you somehow propose that Brawn suffered brainfade and immersed himself in the area he is incapable for?

Perhaps more like trying to live up to the myth and Daimlers xpectations, both pressure as well as self-deception?

Rain at Spa, sounds like a recipe for MS in a twitchy go-cart somehow, doesn't it?

[timbo]

So, is it that you somehow propose that Brawn suffered brainfade and immersed himself in the area he is incapable for?

Perhaps more like trying to live up to the myth and Daimlers xpectations, both pressure as well as self-deception?

I don't think trying to live up to the myth involved standing at the drawing board himself. If anything he made a mistake not trying to radically reorganize team which was notorious at going two steps back for each step forward. Probably it was better to create a team from scratch.

[marcush.]

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 82508.html

again .german language ..the last ´sentence is most interesting :I got carried away by the prospect of join the current championship team ,Mercedes as new owners and expected a very competitive outfit and car from the word go .Only with inside knowledge it was possible to realise the real state of affairs ,which I obviously did not have then.Ouch !
This is the first time ever (!) we hear something of criticism in Brawns direction in public ,eh?
Add to this the somehow unexplainable car woes on michaels car only last year and i tell you Brawn and Michael have a bit of tension in their relationship these days.

[dren]

That's interesting cause it was Brawn or Michael who said they'd have the other at a dinner party if they could only invite a few people.

[munudeges]

Same correlation can be seen with Brawn.

Wandering off-topic somewhat, apart from being Brawn related, but the same correlation cannot be seen.

When Brawn was in teams where Byrne was backing him up they eventually started winning. When Byrne took a back seat from 2004 Ferrari fell backwards badly until Tombazis returned and the Brawn was the following wind from a decade of very heavy funding and a lucky break in the regulations and couldn't maintain the advantage they had. From then on the Mercedes cars that have been produced are not something you would expect to be produced under the watch of someone like Ross Brawn if his reputation holds up to scrutiny.

[munudeges]

The TD at Honda was Jörg Zander ,his work and responsibility .Zander fell out with Brawn over the decision which direction to take early in 2009.

Do we know specifically why Zander left? He was obviously a pretty key person in the development of that car and you can track the mid-season decline in 2009 and their inability to develop when he left. I just wonder why this team, through the Honda years as well with Geoff Willis, keep losing key people.

EDIT: I think some posts could be moved to the Mercedes GP thread. Related to Mercedes but not much to do with the car specifically.

[xpensive]

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 82508.html

...I got carried away by the prospect of join the current championship team with Mercedes as new owners and expected a very competitive outfit and car from the word go. Only with inside knowledge it was possible to realize the real state of affairs, which I obviously did not have then.
...

My edit, sorry marcush.

This must be a first, MS speaking out on his xpectations and disappointments, not that I'm in any way surprised? More like I'm most impressed with his loyalty, as a matter of fact xtremely so, lesser men would have stormed out of there long time ago.

[munudeges]

again .german language ..the last ´sentence is most interesting :I got carried away by the prospect of join the current championship team ,Mercedes as new owners and expected a very competitive outfit and car from the word go .Only with inside knowledge it was possible to realise the real state of affairs ,which I obviously did not have then.Ouch !

Honestly Marcush, if that is accurate it shouldn't surprise any of us should it? Some of us have been saying all along that Schumacher came back and Mercedes got involved because they thought they were buying into a winning team. It wasn't supposed to take years to build, and Schumacher just didn't have the time to spend anyway. He needed to be winning from the off.

The 'real state of affairs' part or words to that effect (OK, it's a translation) just creates an uncomfortable impression of life within that team. Things don't seem to have improved since the days of BAR and Honda, or as Villeneuve once described it - 'very political'.

[timbo]

When Brawn was in teams where Byrne was backing him up they eventually started winning. When Byrne took a back seat from 2004 Ferrari fell backwards badly until Tombazis returned and the Brawn was the following wind from a decade of very heavy funding and a lucky break in the regulations and couldn't maintain the advantage they had. From then on the Mercedes cars that have been produced are not something you would expect to be produced under the watch of someone like Ross Brawn if his reputation holds up to scrutiny.

2005 slump was heavily contributed by tyres. Following wind sounds funny as if somebody already could make that budgets work before Brawn.
Surely, Brawn might be too used to the type of extensive operation he enjoyed at Ferrari. But to say that Newey=winning car is also great overstatement. After all, he was beaten by Benetton and Ferrari more than once. He also had to wait until dramatic rule change caused another leap in design evolution to see his recent cars out in front.

[marcush.]

mate ,the translation really is "in the sense of" so don´t read too much into the words I chose.To translate really measured and precise just takes too much time .
Basically he is pointing the finger a bit less than polite in Brawns direction ,NOT mentioning him in words.
So this is a well measured statement trying to avoid the british papers to create further friction .
In my understanding Schumacher is disappointed by the facts but feels very much responsible or in charge Not to turn away but give it all to make it all a success.
But of course he is aware that he has limited power in this .And maybe slowly he´s realising what the team really needs :some head dressing ?Hard times.
Especially when some Lauda is blaming him for underachieving..I think Schumacher now badly misses a guy like Byrne who really knows how to translate his input into better performing cars.
The Shovlin /Clear /Slade/Ross side of things is not to blame they work wonders to adapt the car to the tracks .

It´s the approach back at home that is worrying .With Brawn telling some storys which are obviously total bs .
Look .we have discussed the flexy wing thing last year already.Now it´s on the car .Is it acceptable to take one year or more to sort out what is or is not a relevant applied technology? how easy it is to produce a windtunnel model with servo adjusted front wing deflection and Quantifying the potential gains to your car.A weeks work and a tunnel session of a few hours and you know what´s in there.As soon as you know about the potential ,you caqn put the new behaviour in your aero map and start simulating .Looking for counter measures to baölance the car and it will not take long till you know if or if not this will take you forward or not.
Fast forward 2011 :all of a sudden MGP is commin g up with flexy front wings ,at a time RedBull seems to have already lost interest in the technology.
Frthermore :The Mercedes flex is coming with a reduction of Aof A ..in Flight aero this is what you want to avoid ,you try to not twist the wing tip with higher speeds resulting in lower angle of attack as this seems a big contributor to sudden wing failure due to wing flutter...

[xpensive]

I believe the perfect set-up for Mercedes GP would have been Pit-bull Gascoyne as Technical director and Bob Bell as Chief designer, when I agree with mun that Bell might not be strong enough in the Daimler environment. Lord knows that Gascoyne would.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The daimler environment?

Was it a problem for AMG, HWA, Sauber or McLaren?

[marcush.]

woa :Change of race engineer for Michael Schumacher:

Jock Clear now back at the race track working with Schumacher ...who had thought this before..
I look forward to it I hold Jock in really high regard.Let´s see .

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Can you expand on why jock is held in high regard marcush?

Was he not scheuys engineer last year?

[marcush.]

No Shovlin was .
Jock clear is one of the Race engineer legendsand was Herbert race engineer at Lotus in 1994 before switching to williams (for Coulthard first) then J.Vs race engineer in his whole formula 1 career ,then Sato ,then Barrichello and last year Rosberg.

So basically the guy is formula 1 race engineer since 1994 ..finally someone who has a matching experience in terms of time spent in F1 at the sharp end of the grid.

These two former enemies and old farts should be a formidable pairing .Villeneuve was famous for going their own special way in terms of setups at Williams to the annoyance of Patrick Head.